Jade gaiwan...or not?
I purchased what looks like it's a black jade gaiwan - or at least I think it is. It's mostly black, with dark green streaks. It looks nice, but how can I tell if this is genuine jade or not? Serpentine? Some other material?
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Re: Jade gaiwan...or not?
Did some extra research. I'm now pretty certain that it's serpentine. Less reputable, or less-informed vendors, might call it "Chinese jade" or "new Jade."
Genuine jade, on the other hand, can be extremely difficult to find, and equally costly. Porcelain is less expensive and easier to handle.
Genuine jade, on the other hand, can be extremely difficult to find, and equally costly. Porcelain is less expensive and easier to handle.
Jul 3rd, '12, 00:41
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Re: Jade gaiwan...or not?
Jade is either white or a light green. Not usually a dark green or black. Jade is also translucent when held up to a light.
If it were true jade, you would pay a pretty penny for it. A few hundred dollars, probably. My local teashop has some novelty jade teawares that carry a price tag of a minimum $500.
If it were true jade, you would pay a pretty penny for it. A few hundred dollars, probably. My local teashop has some novelty jade teawares that carry a price tag of a minimum $500.
Re: Jade gaiwan...or not?
Good evening, Gentlefolks
The gaiwan is definitively serpentine, one of the many types of
stone the Chinese refer to as 'Jade', 'Yu' .
Serpentine is very popular for making drinking cups and similar items.
A large production is in Dunhuang, the cups are referred to as ' luminous
cups'. In Taiwan, traditionally shaped Teapots are carved, for use in Gong Fu Cha.
Gaiwans are more common. As a rule, the thinner the item, the more valuable. A Teapot carved by a master will easily fetch 800 to 1000 Euro.
I personally prefer these Teapots even to first rate Yixing. They enhance most Teas greatly, particularly Oolongs and WuYi's . Greens ome very nicely too. The pots have great heat retention, serpentine was - in fact -
used for building heat retaining elements in best quality stoves in Germany.
While the materal is neither Jadeite or Nephrite, the minerals usually
called Jade, one may still call it Jade, from a traditional point of view.
Many antique artifacts are not Jadeite or Nephrite but are still counted under the Jade Group. Mutton Fat Jade is a good example, also chicken blood stone or perhaps Mou Yu, a brown type.
Jadeite, or commonly Burma Jade comes in many colours, including greens, lavenders, oranges and reds. Even multioloured hues are found.
Imperial Jade, a translucent dark Green is considered one of the best.
With Jadeites, you will find many forgeries, white Jadeite stones are often coloured or enhanced with resins. Caveat Emptor!
A lump of Jadeite large enough for even a small Teapot would make a gift
worthy of a king. With reasonable carving go for at least 6000 Euros.
I hope you enjoy your Gaiwan. Hold it to the light sometime and see
the play of colour ...
Patrick B. Ludwig
The gaiwan is definitively serpentine, one of the many types of
stone the Chinese refer to as 'Jade', 'Yu' .
Serpentine is very popular for making drinking cups and similar items.
A large production is in Dunhuang, the cups are referred to as ' luminous
cups'. In Taiwan, traditionally shaped Teapots are carved, for use in Gong Fu Cha.
Gaiwans are more common. As a rule, the thinner the item, the more valuable. A Teapot carved by a master will easily fetch 800 to 1000 Euro.
I personally prefer these Teapots even to first rate Yixing. They enhance most Teas greatly, particularly Oolongs and WuYi's . Greens ome very nicely too. The pots have great heat retention, serpentine was - in fact -
used for building heat retaining elements in best quality stoves in Germany.
While the materal is neither Jadeite or Nephrite, the minerals usually
called Jade, one may still call it Jade, from a traditional point of view.
Many antique artifacts are not Jadeite or Nephrite but are still counted under the Jade Group. Mutton Fat Jade is a good example, also chicken blood stone or perhaps Mou Yu, a brown type.
Jadeite, or commonly Burma Jade comes in many colours, including greens, lavenders, oranges and reds. Even multioloured hues are found.
Imperial Jade, a translucent dark Green is considered one of the best.
With Jadeites, you will find many forgeries, white Jadeite stones are often coloured or enhanced with resins. Caveat Emptor!
A lump of Jadeite large enough for even a small Teapot would make a gift
worthy of a king. With reasonable carving go for at least 6000 Euros.
I hope you enjoy your Gaiwan. Hold it to the light sometime and see
the play of colour ...
Patrick B. Ludwig
Jul 4th, '12, 01:57
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Re: Jade gaiwan...or not?
I deal in Burmese jade, buying mostly in Western Thailand & some in Myanmar, the very best places to buy jadeite; yet, acquisition is a challenge. One cannot please everyone. I don't know what shades of green, nor even what colors are "best"; since I do know that people's tastes differ.
I've never found a beautiful large jade cup, bowl, or teapot. Only tiny ones. Also, I've never found a jade teapot w/ thin walls. It's been a few years since I've seen a low-priced teapot, even an ugly one. I can buy hundreds of small saucers (my most popular item) for less than one ugly teapot. The saucers look beautiful anywhere & are appreciated for their beauty & soothing feeling in one's hand, when not holding wasabe or soy sauce etc.; while teapots don't seem to show off the many colors of jadeite as well, & are heavy. Yet, jade teapots are so expensive.
Sometimes I drink tea out of small jade cups that hold about one ounce of tea or the small saucers that hold about half that. I watch light play in them once they are empty or roll a few drops around them, making 30-second steeps a pleasure, not just a wait. Also, I often find myself holding a saucer & rubbing it like a worry-stone when on hold using the telephone. Sometimes such moments feel spiritual to me.
I've seen family & friends that have jade from me enjoying it likewise; yet, they don't believe that jade is imbued w/....
For 15 years, I have retailed around Xmas at international bazaars in Boston & Cambridge, MA. Chinese customers who have bought from me each year, still ask if my jadeite is real (because they only saw nephrite growing up & because my prices are low; however, some of them ask for a huge discount on the 35-pound Buddha that I've had for sale for so long. What's going on?).
Jade is translucent unless it is too thick for light to come through it; so, then is it opaque?
Cutting into jadeite is going into the unknown. Ideal stone for me: various shades of green w/ lavendar tints, but dull brown, spots, inclusions that put off many people, etc. may lie just a bit beneath the ideal beauty. The bigger the stone, the more likely it won't all be beautiful; so I may never find a big beautiful jade teapot, & if I do, probably won't have enough $ for it.
I see lots of light green celadon for sale, but I never see anyone using it themselves. I don't remember seeing serpentine cups, etc.
I've never found a beautiful large jade cup, bowl, or teapot. Only tiny ones. Also, I've never found a jade teapot w/ thin walls. It's been a few years since I've seen a low-priced teapot, even an ugly one. I can buy hundreds of small saucers (my most popular item) for less than one ugly teapot. The saucers look beautiful anywhere & are appreciated for their beauty & soothing feeling in one's hand, when not holding wasabe or soy sauce etc.; while teapots don't seem to show off the many colors of jadeite as well, & are heavy. Yet, jade teapots are so expensive.
Sometimes I drink tea out of small jade cups that hold about one ounce of tea or the small saucers that hold about half that. I watch light play in them once they are empty or roll a few drops around them, making 30-second steeps a pleasure, not just a wait. Also, I often find myself holding a saucer & rubbing it like a worry-stone when on hold using the telephone. Sometimes such moments feel spiritual to me.
I've seen family & friends that have jade from me enjoying it likewise; yet, they don't believe that jade is imbued w/....
For 15 years, I have retailed around Xmas at international bazaars in Boston & Cambridge, MA. Chinese customers who have bought from me each year, still ask if my jadeite is real (because they only saw nephrite growing up & because my prices are low; however, some of them ask for a huge discount on the 35-pound Buddha that I've had for sale for so long. What's going on?).
Jade is translucent unless it is too thick for light to come through it; so, then is it opaque?
Cutting into jadeite is going into the unknown. Ideal stone for me: various shades of green w/ lavendar tints, but dull brown, spots, inclusions that put off many people, etc. may lie just a bit beneath the ideal beauty. The bigger the stone, the more likely it won't all be beautiful; so I may never find a big beautiful jade teapot, & if I do, probably won't have enough $ for it.
I see lots of light green celadon for sale, but I never see anyone using it themselves. I don't remember seeing serpentine cups, etc.
Jul 4th, '12, 19:18
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Re: Jade gaiwan...or not?
Since we're talking stone teawares, I'll share this little cup that I found among my Dad's things. Would this be serpentine?
I haven't yet used it yet, because I wasn't sure about the heat-safety of it with hot tea.
I haven't yet used it yet, because I wasn't sure about the heat-safety of it with hot tea.
Jul 4th, '12, 19:49
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Re: Jade gaiwan...or not?
OK ... so what is this? Purchased in Philly Chinatown several years ago. We were told it was jade, but I never fully believed this given the fact they had a LOT of them and their price seemed way too low.
I would say rather transluscent.
Regardless, jade or not ... still a pretty cool teabowl.
Sorry for the old/bad photo ...
I would say rather transluscent.
Regardless, jade or not ... still a pretty cool teabowl.
Sorry for the old/bad photo ...
Jul 4th, '12, 19:52
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debunix
Jul 4th, '12, 20:15
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Jul 4th, '12, 21:13
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Re: Jade gaiwan...or not?
Some clues: jadeite is heavier & harder than its lookalikes & it takes longer to get cold or hot (& keeps that way longer)
I have some jade pieces just like that.
Whatever, it looks beautiful.
I have some jade pieces just like that.
Whatever, it looks beautiful.
Re: Jade gaiwan...or not?
Good evening
Both cups are clearly serpentine. The green cup belonging to Mr. Chip
is a nice example for the 'Luminous Cups' from Dunhuang.
Regards
Patrick B. Ludwig
Both cups are clearly serpentine. The green cup belonging to Mr. Chip
is a nice example for the 'Luminous Cups' from Dunhuang.
Regards
Patrick B. Ludwig
Jul 5th, '12, 13:14
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Jul 6th, '12, 11:59
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Re: Jade gaiwan...or not?
Imho & w/ no dog in this race & no desire to offend Patrick or anyone, say that we cannot know what this little saucer is from a photo. I know I have pieces that look just like this that are Burmese jade (jadeite). I would put hot tea in that saucer w/ confidence. (If you do, & it breaks, please contact me) My eyes tell me that the original piece of this thread is not jade, but again photos are not definitive.