Noob wonderings about Ripe

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Aug 22nd, '12, 12:16
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Noob wonderings about Ripe

by ciphoto » Aug 22nd, '12, 12:16

If ripe puerh was made to make the tea reach similar qualities of aged sheng puerh in a shorter time where do the two converge, ie 10 year old shu simialr to 25 year old sheng etc? Or do they every really?

From personal experience do they develop chaqi? Can a tea that doesn't have it in it's youth even develop it?

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Aug 22nd, '12, 12:48
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by MarshalN » Aug 22nd, '12, 12:48

Anyone who tells you that ripe pu is similar in quality to a 10 or 25 year raw pu is just lying to you. They're different. Treat them as different teas and you won't be disappointed.

IMO the best ripe pu are the ones that have gone through some traditional storage. That way they taste more complex and are more interesting. Otherwise.... it's boring.

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Aug 22nd, '12, 13:02
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by apache » Aug 22nd, '12, 13:02

MarshalN wrote:Anyone who tells you that ripe pu is similar in quality to a 10 or 25 year raw pu is just lying to you. They're different. Treat them as different teas and you won't be disappointed.

IMO the best ripe pu are the ones that have gone through some traditional storage. That way they taste more complex and are more interesting. Otherwise.... it's boring.
I heard somewhere, when shu been through 'wet' storage, it would development date flavour.

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Aug 22nd, '12, 14:50
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by MarshalN » Aug 22nd, '12, 14:50

apache wrote:
MarshalN wrote:Anyone who tells you that ripe pu is similar in quality to a 10 or 25 year raw pu is just lying to you. They're different. Treat them as different teas and you won't be disappointed.

IMO the best ripe pu are the ones that have gone through some traditional storage. That way they taste more complex and are more interesting. Otherwise.... it's boring.
I heard somewhere, when shu been through 'wet' storage, it would development date flavour.
That's correct! Sometimes anyway.

Aug 22nd, '12, 15:43
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by ciphoto » Aug 22nd, '12, 15:43

MarshalN wrote:Anyone who tells you that ripe pu is similar in quality to a 10 or 25 year raw pu is just lying to you. They're different. Treat them as different teas and you won't be disappointed.

IMO the best ripe pu are the ones that have gone through some traditional storage. That way they taste more complex and are more interesting. Otherwise.... it's boring.
Thanks MarshalN,
In my little to no experience I wondered how they could. I've only just begun playing puerh and even though it was ripe mini touchas that led me here I see a large difference in each genre...

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Aug 22nd, '12, 16:09
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by teaisme » Aug 22nd, '12, 16:09

so is that date taste in ripe pretty common among ripe? (only had 2 ripes, not counting dimsum tea)
I have a cake of ripe that does taste very nice, very datey to me, and was curious if there are cakes that taste similar but not so expensive :shock:

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Aug 22nd, '12, 22:49
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by TwoDog2 » Aug 22nd, '12, 22:49

teaisme wrote:so is that date taste in ripe pretty common among ripe? (only had 2 ripes, not counting dimsum tea)
I have a cake of ripe that does taste very nice, very datey to me, and was curious if there are cakes that taste similar but not so expensive :shock:
It depends how you define date flavor. I have had many ripes that have that date flavor, and they are not particularly expensive either. In my experience, 100 RMB -200 RMB there are cakes that carry that flavor.

Agree with Marshaln that ripes at best can mimic some attributes of aged raw puer. They never exactly mimic it, because a lot of the sensations just can't be copied. (Or, nobody has figured out how to do so yet...) It is best to treat them separately.
ciphoto wrote: From personal experience do they develop chaqi? Can a tea that doesn't have it in it's youth even develop it?
In my experience, you won't find ripe puers with chaqi that comes close to raw. I think this is because a lot of the potency is lost in the processing. The leaves are bruised, composted, torn, piled, etc. As for developing it, I don't think that teas suddenly gain that potency either. They will gain a smoother aged quality that has benefits unto itself. This is just my experience...talking about cha qi is sort of like discussing religion or politics. You get pretty varied opinions on a complex and divisive topic.

Aug 23rd, '12, 09:48
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by ciphoto » Aug 23rd, '12, 09:48

TwoDog2 wrote:talking about cha qi is sort of like discussing religion or politics. You get pretty varied opinions on a complex and divisive topic.
I was hesitant to mention it for that very reason, but had read somewhere over the past few days of tea developing it.

In my brief foray I have experienced a calming with a few teas and an energizing force with another. The first akin to the feeling after a mediation session, the second is similar to after an intense yoga session, at least for me.

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Sep 8th, '12, 21:00
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by jayinhk » Sep 8th, '12, 21:00

The notion of qi in good raw tea is absolutely true, and I feel nothing from the cooked (ripe). The loose raw I picked up a few weeks ago makes me feel really positive and happy. It also makes me eat twice as much!

The shu tastes good, but it doesn't make me feel any different. I want to say the cooking takes the 'life' out of the tea, which I guess it does, since the heat will kill microrganisms that would otherwise thrive.

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Sep 9th, '12, 22:06
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by TwoDog2 » Sep 9th, '12, 22:06

jayinhk wrote:The notion of qi in good raw tea is absolutely true, and I feel nothing from the cooked (ripe). The loose raw I picked up a few weeks ago makes me feel really positive and happy. It also makes me eat twice as much!

The shu tastes good, but it doesn't make me feel any different. I want to say the cooking takes the 'life' out of the tea, which I guess it does, since the heat will kill microrganisms that would otherwise thrive.
The general statement that ripe teas have less qi than raw teas is accurate, but to play devil's advocate for ripe, there are a few other factors involved.

How heavily the tea is fermented, in my experience, has a big impact on how much qi (or other desirable characteristics for that matter) are left behind. Some of the best ripe teas are lightly fermented, as still have a bit of power in them. The stuff that is piled and heaped until it is jet black usually has very little left in its guys. You can usually see this in the spent leaves, which fall apart when touched.

Another point for ripe, some people don't drink it for qi, but for it's smoothness. I have a few friends who don't drink tea very often, and they much prefer ripe. It is a more friendly drink.

Alright, that is enough playing defense attorney for ripe. Your witness.

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Sep 9th, '12, 22:23
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by jayinhk » Sep 9th, '12, 22:23

While I understand that ripe can be very pleasant and goes down easily, after the ripe I've been enjoying this week, the process of accelerated 'ripening' through piling and fermentation cannot be considered a natural process. Some or all of the life, or qi of the tea, is definitely lost. It really depends what you're looking for I guess. If you just want a pleasant-tasting beverage that goes down smooth without many of the benefits of natural aging, shu it is.

Sep 9th, '12, 22:47
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by shah82 » Sep 9th, '12, 22:47

Ripe teas ages faster into that kind of special old tea qi. To be sure, virtually all of the ripes that are special today were fermented lightly.

Sep 10th, '12, 05:16
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by yanom » Sep 10th, '12, 05:16

the process of accelerated 'ripening' through piling and fermentation cannot be considered a natural process.
I'd be cautious about saying things like that. Look at the processing that happens with sheng: how is that "natural"?

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Sep 10th, '12, 05:45
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by jayinhk » Sep 10th, '12, 05:45

yanom wrote:
the process of accelerated 'ripening' through piling and fermentation cannot be considered a natural process.
I'd be cautious about saying things like that. Look at the processing that happens with sheng: how is that "natural"?
Very good point :lol:

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Sep 10th, '12, 13:40
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Re: Noob wonderings about Ripe

by teaisme » Sep 10th, '12, 13:40

I think people often notice the qi of a tea more easily with specific styles of tea that are more in accordance with their current state of being

What might seem devoid of qi to one, can be very noticeable to someone else

The ripe cake that I am drinking now often makes me feel like I am a comfortably radiating furnace :shock:

It also happens to be on the lighter fermentation side. So like others have said perhaps quality ripe share this characteristic? I have only had 3 or so ripes so I do not have a clue how true this is in general.

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