Antique gaiwan? Or not antique and not even a gaiwan?

[Fabien]

Hi everybody,
Saw this in an antique dealer's shop, sold as a Qing chinese rice bowl for something like 100$. Of course, I wasn't expecting the owner to know anything about teaware but this particular one has features that I find interesting :
- scalloped shape,
- hollow saucer,
- large size, something like 12 cm of diameter,
- strange seal that doesn't even look chinese (japanese?)
- calligraphy on the saucer that looks chinese this time,
- style of decoration that is difficult for me to date to a specific period,
- worn gilt decoration that would fit with some years of use.

What do you guys think? Ever seen one like this?

[jaderabbit]

Hmmm if it is a gaiwan I could see maybe using it to brew green tea and drink out of it directly, Qing dynasty-style. But then again, its height doesn't really facilitate that sort of tea brewing/drinking. What about for serving medicine?
It could also just be a fancy rice bowl hahaha.

[Fabien]

I don't think I want a rice bowl for the moment
What made me wonder about this bowl being an old gaiwan was the saucer that I don't remember seing a lot on rice bowls.
But anyway, as you said, I would buy it rather because I love antique teaware than for its very practical purposes. And its size could also be a good point for teas like Tai ping hou kui with very large leaves and no need to keep water too hot.
Still wondering though....

[edkrueger]

Its an antique gaiwan. Did you have a look on http://gotheborg.com/ ?

[Fabien]

Hi Ed,

Gotheborg was of course one of my first reflexes. But as I know quite well its' chinese and japanese marks topics, I was quite sure I had never seen a similar mark in my previous visits. And actually I didn't.

For me the lid's mark looks almost japanese (size, color, type of handwriting) which makes me wonder about it being a gaiwan. I contacted the dealer again and he told me he had 3 of these but had no more information on their origin, only that they were part of a big batch of asian antiques from an auction house in the netherlands... but that could also be a sales pitch, who knows. I'll ask him if he can send me photos of the 2 others, maybe I'll have more clues.

The investigation continues...

[Tead Off]

Looks like a Japanese export piece made in earlier 20th century. This is only a guess and in no way definitive. I wonder if it wasn't part of a set, these being desert bowls?

[edkrueger]

Now, I'm not an expert, but there was a point at which a lot of chinese painted ceremics where being made in Japan. The style does looks like a gaiwan style. The 12cm seems to be the right scale too.

[MarshalN]

I've bought three of similar style (scalloped gaiwan) but not the same decoration. Mine are definitely Chinese and antique. Yours looks pretty good. I'd buy it for $100

[Fabien]

Thanks Marshal, I've had the dealer since then and had no additional info. But I feel they would be glad to sell the three they have for a little lower price. So I think it could become interesting even if I wasn't planning buying the whole set of three. But they are trully very nice!

If you don't mind and have enough time, could you show or send me some additional pics of those gaiwans I indeed already saw in your blog in order for me to compare, especially the seal that continues to puzzle me.

[MarshalN]

Thanks Marshal, I've had the dealer since then and had no additional info. But I feel they would be glad to sell the three they have for a little lower price. So I think it could become interesting even if I wasn't planning buying the whole set of three. But they are trully very nice!

If you don't mind and have enough time, could you show or send me some additional pics of those gaiwans I indeed already saw in your blog in order for me to compare, especially the seal that continues to puzzle me.

I have no info on your seal and I'm pretty sure you won't find any info. This is what they call a civilian kiln and there's nothing to be found about it anywhere, I'd think.

[Fabien]

All right Marshal, thanks for the civilian kiln info.
I'll stick to whether I like them enough to bring them home, as usual with teaware : "forget the facts, if you like it then buy and use it"

[MarshalN]

Just remember that gaiwans are basically consuambles - all gaiwans will eventually break if you use it regularly. So don't be too heart broken.

[Evan Draper]

Good reason to buy all three, eh?

[Fabien]

Hi Evan,
4 in fact, the seller had 3 more and not 3 at all. But on the additional photos 2 out of 4 had hairlines and thus are not really useable to brew tea.

3bols 640.jpg (36.44 KiB) Viewed 2134 times

Maybe I should negociate the 4, drink out of the 2 that are free of flaws and keep the 2 others on display and for spare parts... but that would end up spending quite a lot of money and I'm unfortunately not in the best situation right now for tea expenses

I'll probably just buy the 2 that are in trully good state if I get a reasonable price.