Chawan vs Yunomi

[JRS22]

The commitment to making a proper chawan -- wow!

The requirements lead more to an appreciation of chawan vs. bowl.

I don't prepare matcha & guess that I would be happy w/ work that is rejected. Those failures may not be worth photographing & shipping etc., but I am surprised they are not sold on a "seconds" table for people who come directly to the artisans but cannot afford their perfect works.

Thanks to all for this thread.

My first thought was that the rejects could be sold as large teacups, but if they're recognizable as a particular artist's work then eventually they could become known without the "irregular" sticker to identify them as known by the artist to not meet chawan standards.

[kikula]

Yes, despite my instinct to rescue them I do see that it would be a matter of reputation, and perhaps an appropriate point of pride to simply and uncompromisingly honor the standards.
Still, ouch.

[JRS22]

Yes, despite my instinct to rescue them I do see that it would be a matter of reputation, and perhaps an appropriate point of pride to simply and uncompromisingly honor the standards.
Still, ouch.

Yes - ouch

[JBaymore]

I don't prepare matcha & guess that I would be happy w/ work that is rejected. Those failures may not be worth photographing & shipping etc., but I am surprised they are not sold on a "seconds" table for people who come directly to the artisans but cannot afford their perfect works.

First of all, I am speaking about Chawan for actual Chanoyu use. This is very a specialized situation. For "home useage" making some matcha in a casual informal setting for yourself or a friend, there is not the level of formalized ritual that affects the usage of a bowl happening in that setting. There is not years of traditions and what we might call "choreography" and "performance art" overlaid on top of the act of making and drinking the tea. There are also not the level of aesthetes and connosuiers examining the teawares in minute detail every time they are used.

As has been alluded to here in this thread, a lot of western potters do not have the good understanding of "Tea". They make "teabowls" that are based on a light, more casual understanding of the practice. Many have not spent much time in actual Chakai. Many don't even make matcha at all. For many, the teabowl is more of a visual-object-base upon which they adlib. And there is certainly nothing wrong with that when done "outside" the dictates of Japanese culture and Chado practice.

SO........ what to do with less than the best when it comes to Chawan?

This is a conundrum for any artist in most any medium. Some other TeaChatters have already very astutely posted here some of the kind of considerations that go into this question.

Once a piece is out of my hands it is .... out of my hands. Unless something etched on the bottom of a piece says "this is not a chawan" ..... if it looks like a chawan, walks like a chawan, and quacks like a chawan........ someone is going to assume it is a Chawan. And then for anyone who really knows what a good Chawan is (in Chado context), both the bowl and I as a potter will possibly be judged by that severe yardstick.

Since I do make Chawan (and other Chadogu) intended to be used in formal Tea, I am somewhat constrained by this fact. It would be a big decision for me to produce two "lines"........ one for "home use" and one for " Chado". I have been thinking long and hard about this for a very long while. While my Chawan are not at ALL expensive as Chawan can go, they are for many folks, also not inexpensive pieces. Lower priced pieces like this would open up a market segment for me.

If I signed both types using my actual name, again... once they are out of my hands... I can't control wehre they go over the years (and after my death).

So let's say someone buys one for "home use" at a lower price point (and lower standards that allow this). What they then DO with that piece, I have no control over. Maybe they will gift it to their friend whom they know is a practitioner of actual tea ceremony. Or maybe when they die, their estate goes up for auction, and that bowl get placed on the market as a "Chawan". Any number of scenarios are possible that do not fit the intended "home use" kind of idea.

Selling" seconds (or subs) is, in my opinion, a big mistake for a potter. It is an approach to making some money in the short term likely at the expense of the longterm. Yes, it might recover some money out of the cost of materials and labor on less than perfect pieces, but I feel that it can seriously derail your career in the long term.

I don't sell seconds or subs for any kinds of wares that I produce. I did do that when I was a much younger artist...... but haven't for at least 20-25 years. In fact I've had an issue that the large shard pit (where bad work is discarded) near my noborigama has been "raided" in the past for pieces that I have thrown in there that have not broken in the throwing process. I now have to make sure that I really smash them well when I throw them in there .

I do conform to the very Japanese practice of adjusting the price of a piece SLIGHLTY based on the aesthetic success of the work. Every potter gets those "kiln blessings" that result in pieces that are way above the norm. Where synergy happens. Those works do command higher prices. But there is a core "range" for a given type of ware that does not get "violated".

This also protects the clients who have in the past and will in the future buy my work. The market will not be flooded with seconds or subs (aesthetically below par) that can tend to cause the value of their pieces to decrease. It is my guarantee to them.

I might yet begin to offer some lower price point "tea bowls",.....never say never. I am still seriously thinking about it. But I have to figure out HOW to do that appropriately. Maybe it will be the "kiln line".... and use the kiln "stamp", not my name. Maybe I'll broaden the range of "acceptable" works a bit anmd widen the price range of those works.

It I don;t use my name however, that does not fix the "lesser pieces" that emerge form the kiln of the attempts at actual Chawan...... to have the kiln stamp on them... they would have had to been made with that from the very start.

As the Japanese say.... muzukashi desu... it is difficult.

best,

....................john

[JBaymore]

I think many of us would be interested in hearing more about what goes into a critical evaluation of a piece.

+1 John, I am also interested to hear more of your point of view/experience on what, generally and personally speaking, makes a good Chawan. Your experienced perspective and knowledge/eye as a potter/ceramicist make me curious to hear more.

I appreciate these two posts by TeaChat's chamekke that I read some time back on the Tea Mind blog about chawan:

1.http://teamind.wordpress.com/2008/05/16 ... an-part-1/

2.http://teamind.wordpress.com/2008/05/17 ... an-part-2/

Blessings!

THANKS! Great reference. I hadn't seen that set of pages....... but it is an excellent resource, and hits one of my college handouts (a "making handbuilt chawan" course) on the subject very closely.

For the average reader here ... that covers the stuff pretty well and saves me writing another long posting .

The biggest "issues" I see with many western potters chawan are the weight (way too heavy), balance (often bottom heavy), and being too rough at the lip and on the interior (some are very dramatic visually.... but cannot be used with the cleaning cloths and will absolutely shred a whisk).

Also I have to say as I do on the very start of my class handout.........

A tea master can voilate every single typical "rule" there is in Chado and get away with it if they know what they are doing. So the rules are really guidelines in the hands of a master. Sen no Riku was one of the most well known folks that "broke the rules" of his time..... and now his broken rules form the basis for many of the current rules .

best,

.....................john

[tingjunkie]

Dude, I will happily buy a set of 4 JBaymore ice cream bowls please! (I like ice cream far more than matcha anyway.)

[NPE]

Dude, I will happily buy a set of 4 JBaymore ice cream bowls please! (I like ice cream far more than matcha anyway.)

Hmm, are you sure that you are not going to sneak in some green tea ice cream (made with matcha) when nobody is looking???

[tingjunkie]

Well, that too.