This applies to sencha too I suppose.
What are some good guidelines for choosing a correct leaf to water ratio for a deep steamed vs a light steamed shincha? What about temps? What about preheating the kyusu? Should one do this only for gyokuro or senchas too?
Reason I ask is because I've noticed most people on here use a rather high leaf to water ratio, sometimes over 1 gram per 30ml/fluid ounce. I've noticed whenever I do this though, the tea comes out noticably astringent.
For example, I have a bag of Kirameki (light steamed) from o-cha, and on the bag it says to use .6 gram per 30ml and to brew at 80c (176f) for 1 minute. On the website, however, it says to use 1 gram per 30ml and to brew at 71C (160 f) for 1.5 minutes. Using the latter 1:1 ratio, the tea didn't come out very well as it did using the first -- a bit astringent, whereas with the former gave me a better cup.
This is even more confusing for me since I don't know if websites, when they post recommendations, are taking into account preheating or not. Also, when they specify the temp, do they mean the temp the water is supposed to start at before pouring into the kyusu, or after? Obviously this will change whether one preheats or not.
Re: Tips for Brewing Shincha?
Shincha is going to tend to be astringent as a rule. It is very fresh, and almost 'raw'. IMO, it takes a lot of experimenting to get the ration of leaf to water correct for the vessel you are going to use. Less is better, IMO. And going from one tea to another, there will be differences so adjustments are necessary.
Shincha is not easy to brew well. I find it more trouble than it's worth, tbh. I've never had one that I enjoyed as much or more than a good sencha or gyokuro. But, this is one man's opinion.
And, btw, the right water is most important. A difference in water will produce big differences in taste.
Shincha is not easy to brew well. I find it more trouble than it's worth, tbh. I've never had one that I enjoyed as much or more than a good sencha or gyokuro. But, this is one man's opinion.
And, btw, the right water is most important. A difference in water will produce big differences in taste.
Re: Tips for Brewing Shincha?
Ah, okay. That makes sense, because I've definitely been having a time even with teas that are supposedly easier to brew.Tead Off wrote:Shincha is going to tend to be astringent as a rule. It is very fresh, and almost 'raw'. IMO, it takes a lot of experimenting to get the ration of leaf to water correct for the vessel you are going to use. Less is better, IMO. And going from one tea to another, there will be differences so adjustments are necessary.
Shincha is not easy to brew well. I find it more trouble than it's worth, tbh. I've never had one that I enjoyed as much or more than a good sencha or gyokuro. But, this is one man's opinion.
And, btw, the right water is most important. A difference in water will produce big differences in taste.
About the water--I've heard not to use tap, but I've also read different opinions on what type of water is the best. Right now I'm using bottled water, typical stuff that comes in 16.9 fl oz bottles and says purified with minerals added for taste. Does anyone find this is optimal water to use or should I boil it for a few minutes first?
Jun 20th, '15, 18:17
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Re: Tips for Brewing Shincha?
You should first take a look at the TDS of the water you are using.Teaarch wrote:Ah, okay. That makes sense, because I've definitely been having a time even with teas that are supposedly easier to brew.Tead Off wrote:Shincha is going to tend to be astringent as a rule. It is very fresh, and almost 'raw'. IMO, it takes a lot of experimenting to get the ration of leaf to water correct for the vessel you are going to use. Less is better, IMO. And going from one tea to another, there will be differences so adjustments are necessary.
Shincha is not easy to brew well. I find it more trouble than it's worth, tbh. I've never had one that I enjoyed as much or more than a good sencha or gyokuro. But, this is one man's opinion.
And, btw, the right water is most important. A difference in water will produce big differences in taste.
About the water--I've heard not to use tap, but I've also read different opinions on what type of water is the best. Right now I'm using bottled water, typical stuff that comes in 16.9 fl oz bottles and says purified with minerals added for taste. Does anyone find this is optimal water to use or should I boil it for a few minutes first?
Re: Tips for Brewing Shincha?
Thanks for this. I never heard of this before, but after looking it up it seems I missed a crucial step.William wrote: You should first take a look at the TDS of the water you are using.
EDIT: I was looking to buy a tester but it seems the company whose water I buy posts the tds of the water and mine is between 52-88 and ph between 6.5 and 7.5 (I guess it varies depending on the bottle, hence the ranges).
I found this quote while looking up proper ranges:
"Water with 50 – 150 ppm total dissolved solids or 1 to 3 grains hardness provides the best results, according to the Tea Association of the USA."
I have no idea if this is true for only a specific type of tea or all teas.
Re: Tips for Brewing Shincha?
I would change water and try to get something with 7-7.2ph. Mineral water, not with added minerals. You will have to experiment and see what tastes right to you. Trial and error.
I never use tap water or filtered tap for Japanese teas. Too hard, here in Bangkok. But, it works for oolongs and blacks and Puerh.
I never use tap water or filtered tap for Japanese teas. Too hard, here in Bangkok. But, it works for oolongs and blacks and Puerh.
Re: Tips for Brewing Shincha?
Thanks everyone for the advice. I ended up just sticking with the minerals added bottled water in the end.
It's apparently a lot harder to find the right water than I thought it would be. For starters, finding a mineral water with the right tds was impossible; all of them were above 200ppm, and I only found one with the suggested ph (7.2 for that one). I'm still looking, and thinking about perhaps getting a filter.
For the particular tea I mentioned in the first post, I ended up with a better cup by sticking with the parameters on the bag, preheating everything beforehand, as not preheating left me with a weak tea, more astringent then sweet. I just wish sites would specify whether they are taking into account preheating our not, but then again I'm really just grateful some sites post suggestions at all, since I'm terrible at finding the right temps and times on my own.
It's apparently a lot harder to find the right water than I thought it would be. For starters, finding a mineral water with the right tds was impossible; all of them were above 200ppm, and I only found one with the suggested ph (7.2 for that one). I'm still looking, and thinking about perhaps getting a filter.
For the particular tea I mentioned in the first post, I ended up with a better cup by sticking with the parameters on the bag, preheating everything beforehand, as not preheating left me with a weak tea, more astringent then sweet. I just wish sites would specify whether they are taking into account preheating our not, but then again I'm really just grateful some sites post suggestions at all, since I'm terrible at finding the right temps and times on my own.
Re: Tips for Brewing Shincha?
Most steeping recommendations you find on tea bags are complete garbage. But, in the end it's all a matter of preference, as even if a supplier has recommendations which are relevant (most aren't) it's still ultimately up to the drinker what they like.
For sencha, regardless of what the bag says I usually start at 160f, 2tbsp, for 90 seconds. On successive tea sessions I'll raise or lower the temperature/time based on the results of the first session, etc.
For shincha I usually go a little hotter/shorter.
But even with a supplier that gives very thoughtful/accurate recommendations on steeping parameters, like Thes-du-japon, I still need to customize to my personal taste. I do trust their recommendations, so if something is recommended to be out of the ordinary I'll try it that way first, but then I'll go back to my experimentations. Also different varietals will lend themselves to different parameters as well, so even within the sencha moniker you're best off doing your own experimentation.
For bottled water, you may want to try normal water from a natural mineral source instead of actual mineral water. Volvic comes to mind, as does Fiji. You're basically just looking for a softer water profile, slightly on the more alkaline side... you don't really have to match to certain numbers. Personally I use filtered tap and have no problems.
For sencha, regardless of what the bag says I usually start at 160f, 2tbsp, for 90 seconds. On successive tea sessions I'll raise or lower the temperature/time based on the results of the first session, etc.
For shincha I usually go a little hotter/shorter.
But even with a supplier that gives very thoughtful/accurate recommendations on steeping parameters, like Thes-du-japon, I still need to customize to my personal taste. I do trust their recommendations, so if something is recommended to be out of the ordinary I'll try it that way first, but then I'll go back to my experimentations. Also different varietals will lend themselves to different parameters as well, so even within the sencha moniker you're best off doing your own experimentation.
For bottled water, you may want to try normal water from a natural mineral source instead of actual mineral water. Volvic comes to mind, as does Fiji. You're basically just looking for a softer water profile, slightly on the more alkaline side... you don't really have to match to certain numbers. Personally I use filtered tap and have no problems.
Last edited by chingwa on Jun 27th, '15, 11:53, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tips for Brewing Shincha?
In Addition...
The problem with relying solely on the TDS/PPM measurement is that this only measures the amount of measureable particles in the water, it doesn't measure what those particles actually are. a higher calcium content will affect the water a certain way, whereas a higher metal/iron content may affect it a different way. You have no way of knowing beforehand just by reading the number.
I would suggest just trying out a few different water brands and see if you find one that gives you pleasant results with the tea you use. I wouldn't just discount them outright if their number don't match up.
What I would stay away from is a water from a municiple source with added minerals/chemicals. In most cases you want a "natural" water that's been less processed.
The problem with relying solely on the TDS/PPM measurement is that this only measures the amount of measureable particles in the water, it doesn't measure what those particles actually are. a higher calcium content will affect the water a certain way, whereas a higher metal/iron content may affect it a different way. You have no way of knowing beforehand just by reading the number.
I would suggest just trying out a few different water brands and see if you find one that gives you pleasant results with the tea you use. I wouldn't just discount them outright if their number don't match up.
What I would stay away from is a water from a municiple source with added minerals/chemicals. In most cases you want a "natural" water that's been less processed.
Last edited by chingwa on Jun 27th, '15, 11:56, edited 1 time in total.
