Help picking a shui ping for yancha

[pedant]

Interesting to hear how opinions differ, but it seems like smaller pots are preferred for yancha. How small would you say is too small?

before i got a 60mL pot, i was using 80mL.
60mL is my favorite size for yancha now. i think it's perfect.
i also sometimes use a 40mL pot when i just want a few grams of tea late at night as a little treat, and it's hard for me to imagine effectively using a pot much smaller than that (they exist -- jay is selling 30mL pots on his site, and i think that would pretty much be the limit).
why? you just can't fit unbroken leaves in such small pots. also small pots have a high surface area to volume ratio and cool down too quick.

[pedant]

Also if my friend does have some 50ml shui pings, how would you say these would fare for brewing yancha? Thanks again.

i don't have a pot that's precisely 50mL but think it would be a great size for single-person brewing.

[tingjunkie]

In other words, were there classic factory shui ping sizes which have remained consistent over the years? I've seen so many variations listed online—70ml, 80ml, 85ml etc. I've often wondered if these weren't essentially pots of the same size, the difference accounted for by varying approches to measuring the capacity.

If there are classic factory sizes, for shui pings or more broadly, I'd love to know what they are in ML. Also if my friend does have some 50ml shui pings, how would you say these would fare for brewing yancha? Thanks again.

Some factory pots (particularly shui pings) had markings stamped under the lid to denote the number of "cups" each pot would prepare. I think a cup was about 15ml or so, making a 4 cup pot 60ml, and an 8 cup pot around 120-130ml.

The only limiting factor on what is "too small" for yancha would be whether the lid opening can accommodate the long leaves. I've used a 40ml pot to brew aged yancha with broken leaves and it worked just fine. If we're talking newer yancha with intact leaves, and the shui ping shape, I don't think you'll want to go below 60ml.

[William]

This left me wondering: when it comes to, for example, Factory 1 shui pings, were these made in standardised sizes? In other words, were there classic factory shui ping sizes which have remained consistent over the years? I've seen so many variations listed online—70ml, 80ml, 85ml etc. I've often wondered if these weren't essentially pots of the same size, the difference accounted for by varying approches to measuring the capacity.

Yes, factory teapots (especially the well known F1) have been made in standardized sizes, standardized clays, standardized teapots' molds (e.g. for the spout, lid, etc.), and so on.

The teapots that you find online (Ebay, Etsy, etc. ), especially those listed as F1, simply aren't factory teapots, but with most probability modern reproductions.

With regards to the measure of the volume, the method generally used is to fill the teapot with water up to the rim; that's the teapot's volume.

Also if my friend does have some 50ml shui pings, how would you say these would fare for brewing yancha? Thanks again.

Well, essentially, only using that particular teapot you will be able to tell if it's a good pair for Yancha; but, if you post a photo of those SP, we would be able to tell you at least if the clay may be a good pair.

[William]

before i got a 60mL pot, i was using 80mL.
60mL is my favorite size for yancha now. i think it's perfect.
i also sometimes use a 40mL pot when i just want a few grams of tea late at night as a little treat, and it's hard for me to imagine effectively using a pot much smaller than that (they exist -- jay is selling 30mL pots on his site, and i think that would pretty much be the limit).
why? you just can't fit unbroken leaves in such small pots. also small pots have a high surface area to volume ratio and cool down too quick.

Agree. Talking merely about teapot's volume, I think 50 ml / 60 ml SP (or even other shape of the same volume, why not?) are the best for Yancha.

[Tead Off]

I think you are exaggerating a little bit with the number of factory Yixing clays available and used at the time. For example, F1, from the opening years up until the early 80s (this is IMO the golden period for quality clays) used probably no more than 30/50 different Yixing clays (if someone has numbers from trusted source, please share), maybe even less.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. When I mentioned millions of pots made, I wasn't referring to millions of different clays. I wasn't even thinking about a particular number of actual clays used. Do you really think 30/50 different clays were used? Seems a lot, and traditional Zisha is usually broken down to 5 or so types with some sub-types within one type. I couldn't say for sure, though.

On the subject of clay firing, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe with the introduction of gas and electric kilns, the control over firing became more efficient and exact. Using oil, coal, and/or wood be more difficult to reproduce exact conditions time and time again. Keeping a fire at an exact temp for an exact period of time using wood, I think would have more variation. Some potters might like to chime in with their thoughts regarding this.

[William]

I'm not sure what you are referring to. When I mentioned millions of pots made, I wasn't referring to millions of different clays. I wasn't even thinking about a particular number of actual clays used. Do you really think 30/50 different clays were used? Seems a lot, and traditional Zisha is usually broken down to 5 or so types with some sub-types within one type. I couldn't say for sure, though.

Well Tead Off, according to my own experience with F1 teapots, I think I came across to at least 10/15 different clays used by F1 up until '82, lets add a couple of more 10/20 clays for the last decade or so of activity, plus those clay whose teapots never reached Japan and therefore I will never be able to see, and we are more or less in the 30/50 different clays range. Maybe my guess is too high, maybe too low, but it's just a guess. I would love to know if there are available somewhere specific numbers, in particular with regards to the total number of clays used by each factory.

On the subject of clay firing, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe with the introduction of gas and electric kilns, the control over firing became more efficient and exact. Using oil, coal, and/or wood be more difficult to reproduce exact conditions time and time again. Keeping a fire at an exact temp for an exact period of time using wood, I think would have more variation. Some potters might like to chime in with their thoughts regarding this.

During the pre-factory period, teapots were wood fired in dragon kilns, hence the huge variety of firing conditions I encounter on late Qing and ROC teapots (from under-fired to perfectly fired ones, or even those that have been fired in a reduction-atmoshpere, because of the oxygen's lack inside the kiln); in the early 60s, factory teapots were mainly fired in coal kilns, the control of temperature was probably really really good, but still not as good as with tunnel kilns, hence the occasional factory teapot with firing issues (but its really really rare). From the '72/'73 onwards, factory teapots where coal/oil fired in tunnel kilns, where temperature was perfectly reached and maintained. I think I never encountered for this reason, a factory teapot made after '72/'73 with firing problems, a part a couple of over-fired Hongni SP.