Koicha

Made from leaves that have not been oxidized.


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Apr 29th, '08, 00:49
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by olivierco » Apr 29th, '08, 00:49

inspectoring wrote:joelbct, olivierco Thank you guys.....
I just made one with 4 matcha spoons with about 1.5 to 2 oz of water...and temp was about 155.... W O W !!!!...
THsi is the first time I can say I have tasted this side of matcha....however - I am so tweaked its not even funny....was planning on studying for my board exam but I doubt that will happen tonight....

Once again - thank you guys.

You high on matcha friend... :)
It is really amazing to experience that doubling the quantity of matcha completely changes the taste of the tea.

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Apr 29th, '08, 18:43
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by joelbct » Apr 29th, '08, 18:43

inspectoring wrote:joelbct, olivierco Thank you guys.....
I just made one with 4 matcha spoons with about 1.5 to 2 oz of water...and temp was about 155.... W O W !!!!...
THsi is the first time I can say I have tasted this side of matcha....however - I am so tweaked its not even funny....was planning on studying for my board exam but I doubt that will happen tonight....

Once again - thank you guys.

You high on matcha friend... :)
Nice, I am glad you got good results! I just had a bowl of Ito En's Matcha-Koto no Tsuki myself, it is sublime tea. If you like that, you will like Ippodo's Wakamatsu, as well, and O-Cha's Organic Kaoru for usucha.

I am curious about Ito En's ceremonial grade matcha. With green tea, it seems that sometimes a shop's most expensive offering does not always taste the best to me, but we will see ;)

May 4th, '08, 03:08
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by devites » May 4th, '08, 03:08


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May 6th, '08, 23:05
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by joelbct » May 6th, '08, 23:05

If anyone cares to hear, I must say that O-cha's Uji Matcha Manten has been growing on me, and I think is in the "would re-order" category, at least if/when I can afford it. Still quite expensive, but I think I got a better taste out of it by tweaking with concentration and water temperature...

There are still several other matcha vendors I wish to try, and other varieties to try from the vendors I've already ordered from.

Perhaps at some point I will join the rest of the cool kids and start a tea blog with more thorough reviews/pictures of my tea explorations, but for now I am still learning. I will say that blogs like Space's have proven useful and informative to my matcha 101...

May 6th, '08, 23:12
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by devites » May 6th, '08, 23:12

Jeez. 60 dollars is a lot, the stuff I drink is 30 per 1oz. I am content with Do Matcha and since they dont have matcha samplers, I don't see the point in taking the chance of spending 30+ dollars on another matcha. Just my two cents.

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May 6th, '08, 23:13
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by olivierco » May 6th, '08, 23:13

Matcha manten is also on my list.
joelbct wrote: I think I got a better taste out of it by tweaking with concentration and water temperature...
How much water vs matcha did you use?

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May 7th, '08, 00:14
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by joelbct » May 7th, '08, 00:14

Olivier, I pour the water and measure chashaku scoops by eye, so I'm not precisely sure... I will use measuring devices next time and get back to you. But the lower water temperature I think makes a difference for this one. It gets quite foamy even with lower temperature water. Manten is very fluffy and light, in powder form.

Devites, you have a point. For some perspective, though, even $60/ounce matcha is abt $5 a serving. Here is a 1982 Chateau Lafite Rothschild going for 3,348US, that is what, $670 a glass? ;)

That said, my favorite matcha's thus far are in the 20US/20g range... so i am with you on that. As for being content with one type, that I could not be- I love to try new vendors and types...

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May 7th, '08, 00:35
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by chamekke » May 7th, '08, 00:35

joelbct wrote:Olivier, I pour the water and measure chashaku scoops by eye, so I'm not precisely sure... I will use measuring devices next time and get back to you. But the lower water temperature I think makes a difference for this one. It gets quite foamy even with lower temperature water. Manten is very fluffy and light, in powder form.
Just an aside - in traditional tea-ceremony preparation, koicha is not foamy. The tea mixture is so thick that it is simply not possible to raise foam on the top. One article describes koicha as "kneaded to the consistency of single cream". Another one refers to liquid honey, in fact (although it's not quite that sweet, thank goodness).

Whenever I drink koicha out of a teabowl, I'm reminded of the old Carly Simon "Anticipation" ketchup advert from the 1970's... when the teabowl is tilted for drinking, that's actually how slowly the liquid moves!

However, it's perfectly OK to use koicha matcha to make usucha (thin tea). I wonder if that's what people who describe koicha as "foamy" are doing.

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May 7th, '08, 00:55
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by Chip » May 7th, '08, 00:55

Great discussion. I learned a lot here. I am a listener on this one.

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May 7th, '08, 01:17
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by chamekke » May 7th, '08, 01:17

Further to the "thickness of thick tea" question, I found a webpage that illustrates the difference in consistencies rather well - I think!

http://www.wanogakkou.com/culture/01000 ... motto.html

Go to the bottom to see photographs of both types. Or, heck, I'll see if I can simply piggyback them here.

On the left is koicha or thick tea (enough to be shared amongst two or three people, looks like).

On the right, usucha or thin tea (with one bowl being consumed per person):

Image Image

Again, this is as prepared in Chadou. Your personal preferences may dictate otherwise!

Will stop now, as I don't want to be a complete tea ceremony bore :wink:

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May 7th, '08, 03:50
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by olivierco » May 7th, '08, 03:50

Thanks joel and chamekke for this very detailed posts.

By the way I received this morning a message from Kevin (o-cha): he should soon add a chasen (made in Japan of course!) with 48 tines (Chu-Araho) to his line-up.

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May 7th, '08, 09:22
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by joelbct » May 7th, '08, 09:22

Yes Chamekke, I'm aware my typical matcha preparation is somewhere between traditional thin and thick tea, probably closer to the thick side. I tend to experiment anyway, so each time I will make it slightly differently.

Sometimes I prepare it super-thick, but then I am sad because its gone in 2 sips ;)

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May 7th, '08, 11:28
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by LavenderPekoe » May 7th, '08, 11:28

Wow, that picture of "thick" tea is so...green!

May 8th, '08, 01:45
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by devites » May 8th, '08, 01:45

So have I guess I had a misconception about koicha. I thought it was just twice as strong as usucha.

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May 8th, '08, 19:56
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by joelbct » May 8th, '08, 19:56

Interesting aside, after drinking koicha (thick tea)for a month, I just opened a tin of O-Cha's organic kaoru usucha (thin tea), the first matcha I tried 5 months ago.

I can certainly tell the difference! I still *like* the organic kaoru, but not as much as the koicha's I've been drinking, which one can drink it at higher concentrations without the bitterness....

Methinks this is a good sign- My matcha taste buds are developing...

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