from Live Chat in the wee hours

[Sydney]

El Padre: I'd kill for a local tea bar.
ABx: though I have yet to really get this one I just got at Serenity Art the way the lady at the store made it, but I think it's partly due to the cups
ABx: yeah, we've got several.. kinda jealous of tenuki, though.. sounds like Seattle has some killer places
ABx: Serenity Art has a select few that are outstanding, but they're better for teaware than anything
ABx: and to have the guy brew puerh and tell me about it
ABx: we've also got that Paul Rosenberg guy here, who I have yet to visit
El Padre: If I didn't already have so much going, I'd seriously consider setting up a tea bar of sorts.
El Padre: only, with more than just tea
ABx: yeah, part of me really wants to look into it sometime in the future
ABx: hehe, we have a place here that has a bar in the back that sells tea cocktails
El Padre: my idea is "rent the time spent in the establishment"
ABx: I would just want to focus on real quality without pretention.. maybe offer classes and stuff
El Padre: bring your own, if you like, or buy from the house
ABx: ah, interesting
El Padre: set-ups are a modest rental
El Padre: but can also just play chess, read a book, or play PSP
ABx: have isolated rooms set up in traditional decor
El Padre: right
El Padre: with some additional acoustic dampening
ABx: there's a japanese restaurant that has rooms like that.. it's just for eating, but it's traditional japanese
ABx: yup
El Padre: food also served
ABx: one thing I really like, though, is at Serenity Art you can go in and have tea with the guy.. apparently it's a service he actually offers (not just
El Padre: but my higher-level idea is "semi-private club"
ABx: for samples and being social with people he knows)
El Padre: can have memberships with certain privileges
ABx: yeah
El Padre: can rent little lockers to leave teaware and such that you own and not have to transport it
El Padre: wifi for customers
ABx: I was thinking at mine I'd have expensive nights, maybe a membership, where people could come and drink the really expensive teas
ABx: there is one problem with that, though.. if they bring something and get sick, they could still sue you over food poisoning
El Padre: yeah, my idea also involves catering to more exotic tastes
El Padre: most of the details of my idea are things about which I'd be prepared to be flexible
El Padre: gotta be ready to deal with local ordinances and such anyway
ABx: I'd probably also invite a select few real enthusiasts for free.. partly because it would just be a dream to have that happen to me, lol
ABx: yeah
ABx: I'd have to hire a real knowledgeable buyer in china and/or taiwan
El Padre: tastings, classes
ABx: yup
ABx: I think it would be easier here in Portland.. very liberal and all about diversity here, with a heavy fascination with all things asian
ABx: even though half of them would never be "caught dead" in a chinatown store
ABx: which is why Tao of Tea can do so well and Serenity Art remains unknown
ABx: but I think I'd also like to have big tables with people doing gongfu that customers can sit down to, then also have traditional tea tables with built
ABx: -in trays and such
El Padre: there are a few places I think I'd have a fair shot around here
El Padre: beatnik and artsy zones
ABx: yeah
El Padre: and I'm not hated by the locals
ABx: would also have to offer creative blends
El Padre: the whole thing could get kicked off long before making it a location
El Padre: reserve the back room at the new age book store
ABx: true
ABx: I've thought about just starting classes
ABx: even out of the house.. I think that's what Paul Rosenberg does
El Padre: I think a good start for what I have in mind is tastings
ABx: www.sacredtea.com/
El Padre: get a few personable people I know trained up on a few techniques so I don't have to do all the work
ABx: check his thing out.. it doesn't seem like something that would take a lot of doing
ABx: probably just need a food permit
ABx: food handler's card, that's what I was thinking of
El Padre: have thomas dishing out yancha, cara on jasmine and such, while I dole out pu'erh
ABx: hehe
ABx: this Paul guy seems to push the spirituality a bit much, though, which is one reason I didn't just jump on it when I found out about it
El Padre: I like that guy's spread
El Padre: would make a fine zendo
ABx: it gives me the impression that he has very specific ideas about how tea should be enjoyed
ABx: and I'd rather focus on tea than spirituality.. I can go elsewhere for that if I want it.. but otherwise it looks really cool
ABx: maybe I could offer him a decent website in return for one of his sets
El Padre: I'd like a place that's sacred in that people can come in and be guaranteed an environment well-suited to personal reflection.
ABx: yeah, definitely
ABx: maybe see about having various tea masters and well known industry people come and give talks, too
El Padre: that would be nice
ABx: and have monks come and do throat singing and such in return for donations, etc...
El Padre: but I bet I could contact some local yoga studios and such, and come provide tastings
ABx: yeah
ABx: maybe have monks do meditation type tastings, if they do that
ABx: could tap into the new age scene
El Padre: that's particularly easy to my level of connectedness with the local contemplative and new age scenes
El Padre: I even make meditation cushions
ABx: yeah, we've got a pretty big one here.. there's a few publications that are mostly local events, classes, readings, etc etc
ABx: I would want to try and make something that could appeal to the chinese community, though, so I'd want to be a bit selective
El Padre: I just want to introduce some people to teas and techniques I feel have enhanced my quality of life.
El Padre: hmm
ABx: yeah, same
El Padre: I my post an edited version of this chat to the bunk
El Padre: you mind?
ABx: but if you can make something that the chinese community would at least feel comfortable in then you'd probably have something.. if they actually
ABx: showed up then it could actually help
ABx: hehe, it's a public chat.. but I'm not sure what you mean by 'bunk'
El Padre: I've got some slight inroads there
ABx: maybe in 10 yrs you could move out here and we could go in together, lol
El Padre: might make for some Intense chat
ABx: ah yeah

[brandon]

Your own buyer?
Is the markup from China based sellers like Yunnan Sourcing, Dragon Tea House high enough to cover the salary of someone living in China to source for your teashop?

[Mary R]

I'd go to your teahouses! They sound excellent.

[CynTEAa]

Same here!

[hop_goblin]

Tea houses dude

[joelbct]

Sounds like a plan... Would have to be a city with a significant Tea Population. Or, you could just start it anywhere, and we could all move nearby to support the endeavor

[Chip]

Very interesting, long live teahouses and prosper.

The very few in my locale are all girly Victorian. I would need estrogen injections just to get in the place. It is all about the pinky in these places, not the tea.

[chamekke]

It was interesting to take a peek at Sacred Tea. The spiritual aspect was a little OTT (I agree with ABx that people should be able to simply enjoy tea if they like), but if I make it to Portland I would definitely go and check it out.

I was just watching a bit of Tan Dun - Tea, whose composer (Tan Dun) is fond of the spiritual element. For him (and many other people), what makes it spiritual is the communitarian aspect of tea. For many reasons, tea has a welcoming, inclusive, let's-come-together-and-share vibe that simply doesn't exist with any other drink. That's what people are drawn to, and that's why everyone loves the idea of a "tea house" even if they can't precisely describe what one is.

So to me, the ideal teahouse would be one where the communitarian aspect would be most explicit, the "spiritual" side more understated, and the overtly spiritual aspects presented at workshops or special events such as tea-ceremony demonstrations.

[Salsero]

The very few in my locale are all girly Victorian. I would need estrogen injections just to get in the place. It is all about the pinky in these places, not the tea.

I personally wouldn't be caught dead in a place like that.
I understand they are all converted whore houses anyway. You don't want to sit on those chairs!

[chamekke]

We really should have a competition for Most Frou-frou Tearoom.

Sadly, I'll bet there are far more extreme examples than the one above.

In my neighbourhood there is a tearoom, mainly for the tourists, which is crammed with British-royalty paraphernalia. The walls are lined with commemorative plate after commemorative plate. And most of them are of Charles and Diana! Never mind that they got divorced, never mind that Diana died and Charles remarried. By golly, in this one little corner of B.C., the fairytale marriage never ended...

[Salsero]

a tearoom, mainly for the tourists

Let me check this: are you saying that tourists go to BC?

[brandon]

Right, so back to the topic...

More on sourcing:
How much of a given tea would one expect to start out with? I figure I would buy a half a pound to a pound (more for "house" teas that are staples like every day sencha, basic jade oolong, shui xian) and see what sticks. Changing the menu frequently would be nice as well - featuring shincha in May and a few months later, first flush Darjeeling. All sorts of iced tea in the summer!

Pricing:
I like Padre's idea of renting space/gear, but I am not sure how well it would be received. A few friends of mine like to sit around all afternoon in trendy coffee shops - on the rare occasion that I join them, I wonder how such places can stand to have people loitering around reading a book long past finishing their beverage.

For the tea itself, how do you come up with a price that is fair but keeps the lights on? Things that come to mind are, if I charge X for a to go cup of tea made by the employees (should this even be done?), how does this compare to a gong fu session? The side of me that wants to turn a profit thinks that they should pay for leaf and a kettle of water, and pay again when the kettle is done. The tea lover thinks my kettle should be refilled gratis for as long as the leaf holds up.

It would also take some planning to come up with enjoyable but profitable quantities of each tea going into the pot.

[ABx]

About the buyer thing, I was mainly just dreaming (moreso even than the rest of the talk), but I was thinking along the lines of how TeaCuppa has a guy living up there. Someone like Gordon that's willing to do leg work to find especially good stuff would also work, really, which is just in contrast to a typical middle-man that has a static set of suppliers.

Right, so back to the topic...

More on sourcing:
How much of a given tea would one expect to start out with? I figure I would buy a half a pound to a pound (more for "house" teas that are staples like every day sencha, basic jade oolong, shui xian) and see what sticks. Changing the menu frequently would be nice as well - featuring shincha in May and a few months later, first flush Darjeeling. All sorts of iced tea in the summer!

I think that Padre had the right idea of just starting out small. I suppose the problem with that is that you'd mainly be getting the devotees first, which wouldn't necessarily be representative of the average person that would just drop in to a full tea house.

I think you're probably right, though. I imagine you'd want to get a fair amount of the typical stuff, like black teas, flavored teas, and tinsanes like rooibos, and then have smaller quantities of higher grade stuff, with a smaller and more fluid variety to see what sticks.

Pricing:
I like Padre's idea of renting space/gear, but I am not sure how well it would be received. A few friends of mine like to sit around all afternoon in trendy coffee shops - on the rare occasion that I join them, I wonder how such places can stand to have people loitering around reading a book long past finishing their beverage.

Yeah, there's even a coffee shop nearby that has signs asking people not to stay all day because the place gets filled up.

For the tea itself, how do you come up with a price that is fair but keeps the lights on? Things that come to mind are, if I charge X for a to go cup of tea made by the employees (should this even be done?), how does this compare to a gong fu session? The side of me that wants to turn a profit thinks that they should pay for leaf and a kettle of water, and pay again when the kettle is done. The tea lover thinks my kettle should be refilled gratis for as long as the leaf holds up.

It would also take some planning to come up with enjoyable but profitable quantities of each tea going into the pot.

I'd imagine you'd have to do plenty of planning. Visiting tea houses like The Tao of Tea's to see how they do things would be a start. Most people will just want something quick and in a to-go cup, though, and fine teas that are gong-fu'ed would have a higher markup. If they're paying $5-$10 for $0.50 to $2 (or whatever) of leaf then it would probably still be profitable to let them drink it all the way through.

I've still yet to go, but the Chinese Gardens downtown (which has a tea house by The Tao of Tea) will just give you a gaiwan and leaf downstairs, and do full-service gongfu upstairs for more money. I don't know if I'd want to do that exactly, but it does at least provide some inspiration.

In the end I think it would just be a matter of doing a lot of math after you figure out what all your expenses would be.

[brandon]

Right, best to check out other shops to find out the "market" price for these things. Unfortunately there are no such places here - I have never been to a proper (Asian?) tea house, but I hope to find one in San Diego this fall.

I am just trying to start a discussion based on the very interesting first post , including things I have been thinking of myself. Hopefully I don't come across as doubting your business models.

[Sydney]

And I just find the whole idea fascinating enough to kick around.