Teavana up to no good?

[edkrueger]

I didn't think about that, but don't they boil the leaves when doing the caffeine tests?

[Mary R]

Some scientists do, some don't. You've really got to read the M&M sections of the pertinent journal articles to figure out how they determined caffeine content of any particular tea...and usually it's a large group, like "black," "oolong," etc. "Lipton" is about as specific as you get.

'Course, that's in the general journals. There's a couple tea societies out there who run their own. I guess it gets more down to the brass tacks in those publications. (Mmm...exact fungal attacks on specific strains of Japanese varietals...).

[Pentox]

Even after taking those factors into account you have one very large factor to caffeine content: brewing. Caffeine's water solubility is 180mg per mL at 80 degrees Celsius (about 180 Fahrenheit) and 670mg per mL at 100 degrees Celsius. Taking into account full steeping time and volumes averages, it would be assumed that not all the caffeine in every leaf in the shorter steeping times of whites and greens makes it way into the cup nor does the maximum rate of dissolving occur as boiling your greens and whites often scorches them as we all know.

Solubility saturation has almost nothing involved with the extraction rate from the leaf. 180mg / mL is HUGE. You're talking about putting all of the caffeine in a cup of tea in less than a drop of water. If you had tea at maximum caffeine solubility a sip would kill you.

The rate of diffusion into the water is a completely different story than the maximum solubility. As far as I remember there is no direct correlation between the two.

[Rakuras]

Even after taking those factors into account you have one very large factor to caffeine content: brewing. Caffeine's water solubility is 180mg per mL at 80 degrees Celsius (about 180 Fahrenheit) and 670mg per mL at 100 degrees Celsius. Taking into account full steeping time and volumes averages, it would be assumed that not all the caffeine in every leaf in the shorter steeping times of whites and greens makes it way into the cup nor does the maximum rate of dissolving occur as boiling your greens and whites often scorches them as we all know.

Solubility saturation has almost nothing involved with the extraction rate from the leaf. 180mg / mL is HUGE. You're talking about putting all of the caffeine in a cup of tea in less than a drop of water. If you had tea at maximum caffeine solubility a sip would kill you.

The rate of diffusion into the water is a completely different story than the maximum solubility. As far as I remember there is no direct correlation between the two.

Point. I omitted the consideration that tea is a plant and thus, even when dried, has a cellular structure that permits osmosis (to which the exact details are not my major focus in science) thus the numbers of direct solubility do mislead just as much as they point out a large break in temperature difference. My aim was to direct consideration that colder steeped tea, especially Greens and Whites, have a higher probability of having less caffeine per cup while the caffeine in the leaf might indeed be higher. This also leads to the acts of brewing, especially the steeping times. The general idea that Blacks are often steeped hotter and longer suggests that they would have a higher caffeine content from general use. None of these details are anything but a generality as each tea and brewing is different so a guideline of common knowledge needs to be considered lest we fall into arguing every fine detail.

Still, I did mention a lot but failed to clarify everything as I can be excessively wordy/explainative to the point at which my entire posts are ignored or skipped by other. Still onto the topic at hand, each study is different. Some studies combust the leaves in chemical tubes and analyze the result to estimate the contents, others brew a cup and then separate it into its components, and other still leech the contents from the leaves by chemical swapping techniques then measure the results. Being that tea is a plant, there are four or five entire disciplines of chemistry and biology devoted to the ins and outs of the cell and nature. Chemical biology alone bewilders me from time to time with the complexity- and I'm a particle or magnetic physicist to be.

[Roxy]

I've been reading alot of posts that are making me think twice on teavana. Over priced is right, but does anyone know where to find the nitty gritty truth on whats the best tea, best way to brew and best teapot? I'm interested in the traditional japanese way of brewing and japanese teas. I live in Miami, FL. trying to find a good local place that doesnt charge crazy prices, but also has the high quality items (tea, teapots and accessories) I've also read a few things on the cheap quality pots teavana sells at high quality prices. trying to avoid buying into that. lol looking for what we all strive to purchase, high quality with the low quality price tag.

[Pentox]

I've been reading alot of posts that are making me think twice on teavana. Over priced is right, but does anyone know where to find the nitty gritty truth on whats the best tea, best way to brew and best teapot? I'm interested in the traditional japanese way of brewing and japanese teas. I live in Miami, FL. trying to find a good local place that doesnt charge crazy prices, but also has the high quality items (tea, teapots and accessories) I've also read a few things on the cheap quality pots teavana sells at high quality prices. trying to avoid buying into that. lol looking for what we all strive to purchase, high quality with the low quality price tag.

Well the best tea, best way to brew, and best teapot really are only answered by one thing. What you like. (Sadly that's a bit of a copout though)

As far as Japanese teas, the green section is a good place to start reading, there is a lot of information there and we're happy to answer any questions you may have.

[Rakuras]

I've been reading alot of posts that are making me think twice on teavana. Over priced is right, but does anyone know where to find the nitty gritty truth on whats the best tea, best way to brew and best teapot? I'm interested in the traditional japanese way of brewing and japanese teas. I live in Miami, FL. trying to find a good local place that doesnt charge crazy prices, but also has the high quality items (tea, teapots and accessories) I've also read a few things on the cheap quality pots teavana sells at high quality prices. trying to avoid buying into that. lol looking for what we all strive to purchase, high quality with the low quality price tag.

As is stated above, the best methods and teaware are determined by your tastes and brewing style. I'm a very relaxed brewer, brewing around my studies and hobbies rather than the reverse as is the case with some individuals here. Therefore I use a French Press for sampling new cups (~8oz container, costed just over 7 dollars at Ross, a bargain clothing/kitchen good reseller) and have a classic teapot (24 oz, ceramic) and larger French Press (20 oz last I checked) for steeping larger amounts of my daily teas. To date I only find finer teas such as Rooibos or Chamomile require special attention or teaware as the presses don't catch all the finer pieces of the herbal teas. That's just my method but I do suggest checking common locations like bargain or bulk stores as well as slightly more generic venues such as Bed, Bath and Beyond (ugh, so overpriced most often) for the basics before you find one that suits your style in looks and use.

As for 'traditional' Japanese, I've not the knowledge to be that traditional but shopping online would be the cheapest option in most cases as I can assure you after visiting the local Asian districts of San Diego that those vendors who specialize in those traditional good will up the price for their quality goods. I do try to bargain hunt as much as I can so tossing out local vendors for teaware is usually a safe bet. If you're just looking for a teapot and teacup set I recall that most house and home furnishing stores carry mixed set- especially during the holiday seasons. Pier 1, as pricey as they can be sometimes, had a nice white bone China set (~16oz teapot, 4x 4oz or so cups) for about $40, delicate cups and a box to store it in all together. Honestly researching through Amazon, Ebay, and Google are the easiest ways to find good, affordable teaware that'll fit your needs.

As for the tea, well, that's a large personal factor. If it's traditional Japanese teas it's likely going to be a green, white, or rare yellow. These are things I'm still exploring so pester the Green forum for a list of vendors- but local is always a curse. I have family send me teas from all over the country from local teashops like a little one in Albuquerque that has a wonderful set of flavored greens but I've noticed that as time goes on I'm ordering more online than from local venues.

Honestly, I try stuff through Adagio, see if I like it, then move to try other vendors' versions to find the best. A major example would be Twining's Earl Grey versus Earl Grey Bravo. Yes, the Bravo is good but I still prefer the Twining's as it is overall more flavorful and holds to my pallet; Twining's having more spice and flavor strength while the Bravo is milder and calming. If you do find a local vendor that suits your taste and budget, bring the name to the board and send a few other Florida TeaChatters there as most of us love sharing good tea.

Now to get some sle-*THUD*

[disillusioned]

Just to lighten the mood on here a little. I got this little gem from my manager last night. A girl came in and told me she wanted to make an oolong sampler from all the oolongs in our store. So i pulled them out and started telling her about them. When I got to the monkey picked oolong my boss grabbed it and said this is the absolute rarest tea you can buy in america. Nowhere else can you find an oolong this rare of such great quality. I smiled to myself walked into the back room hung up my apron and left.

[cheaton]

I wonder how quickly Id get kicked out of the mall by standing outside of teavana with a handout listing all of the great online places to buy truly great tea?

[geeber1]

I wonder how quickly Id get kicked out of the mall by standing outside of teavana with a handout listing all of the great online places to buy truly great tea?

cheaton, let us know how that goes, it could be interesting! I bet Teavana would send their tea police to get you outta there!

I figure that ANYTHING I buy at the mall is going to be pretty run-of-the-mill and I would expect Teavana's tea to be the same way, I don't think I'd fall for their spiel. (sp?) It's sad to think that so many people do.

[xuancheng]

Just to lighten the mood on here a little. I got this little gem from my manager last night. A girl came in and told me she wanted to make an oolong sampler from all the oolongs in our store. So i pulled them out and started telling her about them. When I got to the monkey picked oolong my boss grabbed it and said this is the absolute rarest tea you can buy in america. Nowhere else can you find an oolong this rare of such great quality. I smiled to myself walked into the back room hung up my apron and left.

I can't believe working in a place where you can't serve a customer without your boss coming over, grabbing things and lying to your customer.

I am actually kind of curious about this monkey picked now. I would like to try the tea that Teavana bases its entire reputation on.

So, did you actually quit? Either way stick around Teachat. Don't give up on tea just because of one bad experience.

[Pentox]

Just to lighten the mood on here a little. I got this little gem from my manager last night. A girl came in and told me she wanted to make an oolong sampler from all the oolongs in our store. So i pulled them out and started telling her about them. When I got to the monkey picked oolong my boss grabbed it and said this is the absolute rarest tea you can buy in america. Nowhere else can you find an oolong this rare of such great quality. I smiled to myself walked into the back room hung up my apron and left.

Wow... It'd be lovely if there were some kind of documentary about the freaking shady practices of Teavana now. I wonder how much of what they do is just brainwashing or flat out lying.

[disillusioned]

i was written up for walking out, and i am quitting officially on saturday, but no worries i will not leave tea chat, a community of tea lovers is just what i need at the moment

[Geekgirl]

Just to lighten the mood on here a little. I got this little gem from my manager last night. A girl came in and told me she wanted to make an oolong sampler from all the oolongs in our store. So i pulled them out and started telling her about them. When I got to the monkey picked oolong my boss grabbed it and said this is the absolute rarest tea you can buy in america. Nowhere else can you find an oolong this rare of such great quality. I smiled to myself walked into the back room hung up my apron and left.

Man, this makes me want to go to the mall, wait around until someone starts going on about the 'monkey picked,' make a few choice and LOUD comments about the lies, so that other customers can hear, then leave. heh.

[wyardley]

The only thing I find surprising about any of this is that anyone finds it surprising.