I am a recent loose leaf tea convert and although I love drinking it, I can't. First, some background.
I am only 22 years of age and when I was younger sodas where my drink of choice. No problems, I was a very happy little boy. Then at some point I decided to go completely without to try and solve some sleep issues. So I went cold turkey. It kinda shocked my friends and family but I was about to stay strong for a month to find I still had the same issues.
Shortly after that I moved to tea because I found that I could live just fine without soda but had no reason to make it my primary beverage of choice. The more I got into tea the more I loved it. Of course, I started with commercially sold tea bags. I would drink tea all day long. with breakfast lunch and dinner. Iced most of the time but hot sometimes too.
Then about a year after the move to tea, I started to venture into loose leaf teas. I found a local shop that had a large variety and went in one day and left with 3 different kinds of tea and a strainer. When I got home, I made my self the best tea I have ever had. However, I started noticing a headache. i thought nothing of it and tried another tea the next day to find the result even stronger. I also noticed the same effects from a commercially sold brand, Revolution.
At first it is just a minor headache but it gets very strong and it is very painful and extremely distracting. Then my head is pounding and it feels like I am sick. And in full force I almost feel like I have been drinking. My judgment is crap, I can not pay attention. It also makes me tired and I feel like sleeping would solve the problem but have trouble getting to sleep.
Any ideas what it causing this?? I would love to enjoy my tea. It would be a shame to let my passion for tea go if it can be fixed.
I found I have the issue with Green, Black, White and Mate teas. I can drink Rooibos no problem though. Its not caffeine, because I can drink a ton of soda and not achieve anything close to the same feeling.
I also tried steeping the tea for a while and dumping that cup out. That did not help either.
Dec 30th, '08, 13:55
Posts: 995
Joined: Feb 8th, '08, 14:22
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Contact:
auggy
Hrm, could be an extreme sensitivity to theophylline?
It sounds like a painful set of experiments, but I agree with Ed in that you might consider varying steeping time (but first, change vendors if you have only been getting from one source).
There's this weird thing about tannins and catechins that I won't go into (but teas have a lot of catechins). Regardless, I didn't see anything about allergies from tannins or catechins -- they actually seem to be the good benefit stuff.
However, the side effects from theophylline do include headaches, nausea, etc.
Somebody else had mentioned getting headaches from tea...
It sounds like a painful set of experiments, but I agree with Ed in that you might consider varying steeping time (but first, change vendors if you have only been getting from one source).
There's this weird thing about tannins and catechins that I won't go into (but teas have a lot of catechins). Regardless, I didn't see anything about allergies from tannins or catechins -- they actually seem to be the good benefit stuff.
However, the side effects from theophylline do include headaches, nausea, etc.
Somebody else had mentioned getting headaches from tea...
I ordered some tea from adagio just to make sure it is not a vendor issue.
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t=1488
When you guys/girls talk about brewing it too long are you talking about the difference of a min or two? If so, then I don't think that's the issue.
I do not drink coffee. And sodas still don't bother me.auggy wrote: Do you get the headache now with coffee or sodas or other drinks with caffeine?
I'm totally willing to get a breakdown of the contents of tea to figure out which is causing the issue and try them one by one to see what it is.Drax wrote:Hrm, could be an extreme sensitivity to theophylline?
It sounds like a painful set of experiments
I found this in my searches. I think it is a similar problem.Drax wrote:Somebody else had mentioned getting headaches from tea...
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t=1488
When you guys/girls talk about brewing it too long are you talking about the difference of a min or two? If so, then I don't think that's the issue.
Last edited by bja888 on Dec 30th, '08, 16:59, edited 2 times in total.
Dec 30th, '08, 16:40
Posts: 544
Joined: Feb 27th, '08, 10:06
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: TX <- NY
Contact:
silverneedles
A minute or two could overbrew a black or oolong.
Other people had mentioned doing a tea rinse first, too - mostly to make sure you wash off any chemicals (or attempt to wash them off).
But... apparently the astringency in tea comes from catechins, not tannins. But both catechins and tannins have a flavenoid base structure, so they're related, but different.
That's all from pretty limited poking around, though, and probably splitting hairs. Nothing to worry about
Other people had mentioned doing a tea rinse first, too - mostly to make sure you wash off any chemicals (or attempt to wash them off).
Oh... well, as the name suggests, 'tannins' refers to a family of compounds derived from tannic acid. These provide astringency in certain foods.silverneedles wrote: what is the weird thing about tannins ?
But... apparently the astringency in tea comes from catechins, not tannins. But both catechins and tannins have a flavenoid base structure, so they're related, but different.
That's all from pretty limited poking around, though, and probably splitting hairs. Nothing to worry about
Last edited by Drax on Dec 30th, '08, 19:08, edited 1 time in total.
Dec 30th, '08, 17:14
Posts: 544
Joined: Feb 27th, '08, 10:06
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: TX <- NY
Contact:
silverneedles
its not a vendor issue or a "quality" issue
tea is a plant, it will contain more or less the same things in every leaf
every production and batch will be different, and so very likely you wont be able to predict how much of whatever component it contains even if ordering from the same vendor etc.
its probably you're sensitive to a "something" in tea causing some vasospastic reactions in your blood vessels resulting in headache. either that or the hot liquid makes your vessels relax, then they contract back or who knows...it might just be the joy that placebo can be...
theophylline has some relation to headaches, even tho its concentration will be very small in brewed tea... if you can drink rooibos that might be it (rooibos still has polyphenols)
tea is a plant, it will contain more or less the same things in every leaf
every production and batch will be different, and so very likely you wont be able to predict how much of whatever component it contains even if ordering from the same vendor etc.
its probably you're sensitive to a "something" in tea causing some vasospastic reactions in your blood vessels resulting in headache. either that or the hot liquid makes your vessels relax, then they contract back or who knows...it might just be the joy that placebo can be...
theophylline has some relation to headaches, even tho its concentration will be very small in brewed tea... if you can drink rooibos that might be it (rooibos still has polyphenols)
Dec 30th, '08, 17:40
Posts: 1051
Joined: Jul 7th, '07, 01:37
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:
ABx
In a way it almost sounds like caffeine sickness - mainly because of the part about feeling sick and wanting to sleep but you can't.
So teabag tea does not do this to you?
With the severity of the consequences, I really hate to say to experiment. I think your best bet would really be to go get an allergy test. It might be worth it to try another brand of tea (or better yet a real tea that has no brand name
), however. It's entirely possible that your chosen brand adds something, either directly or indirectly.
So teabag tea does not do this to you?
With the severity of the consequences, I really hate to say to experiment. I think your best bet would really be to go get an allergy test. It might be worth it to try another brand of tea (or better yet a real tea that has no brand name
), however. It's entirely possible that your chosen brand adds something, either directly or indirectly.Welllllllll........... you're correct that the tea itself is probably more or less the same. But I think we're concerned about what's on the tea, or in with it. Pesticides, feces, melamine.silverneedles wrote:its not a vendor issue or a "quality" issue
tea is a plant, it will contain more or less the same things in every leaf
BJA only mentions a local vendor and we don't know what brand/origin of tea. So quality could definitely be an issue. ABx has a good idea with an allergy test. They should be able to test caffeine and theophylline specifically, but other related issues.
Of course, now that I can blathering on about it, it's interesting that BJA gets headaches across a variety of tea types. How are you boiling your water. . . .? Don't say a rusty old iron kettle
Thank you all for your responses thus far. I would really like to find a solution to this.
@ brewing issue, I've brewed at different lengths. Head hurts 100% of the time.
Of course, the idea is to isolate as many variables as I can to get the key ingredient. So I am interested to see what this new tea I ordered does.
I wish it where that easy. Both at the coffee machine at work (with a hot water tap) and with my kettle at home, the loose leaf bothers me and the commercial tea bags are fine. (And my grandma's house 1,000 miles away)Drax wrote:Of course, now that I can blathering on about it, it's interesting that BJA gets headaches across a variety of tea types. How are you boiling your water. . . .? Don't say a rusty old iron kettle
@ brewing issue, I've brewed at different lengths. Head hurts 100% of the time.
Of course, the idea is to isolate as many variables as I can to get the key ingredient. So I am interested to see what this new tea I ordered does.
Dec 30th, '08, 21:47
Posts: 544
Joined: Feb 27th, '08, 10:06
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: TX <- NY
Contact:
silverneedles
try drinking the tea cold ?
try doing an ABX blind test = make a couple different tea cups (some bags, some loose, some herbal) labeled on the bottom, mix them around, drink, record which cup gives/doesnt give headache, check bottom after all tested. (add lemon to change the taste so it would be harder to 'remember' which was what.)
Drax: whatever feces and melamine that can happen, it wont happen with 100% of the tea he drinks and he gets headache 100% (as bja888 says). so its whats in the tea not on the leaf.
regarding "allergy" ... he'd have more symptoms that just headaches.
sensitivity to a substance (large effect with small dose) is not an allergy.
try doing an ABX
blind test = make a couple different tea cups (some bags, some loose, some herbal) labeled on the bottom, mix them around, drink, record which cup gives/doesnt give headache, check bottom after all tested. (add lemon to change the taste so it would be harder to 'remember' which was what.)Drax: whatever feces and melamine that can happen, it wont happen with 100% of the tea he drinks and he gets headache 100% (as bja888 says). so its whats in the tea not on the leaf.
regarding "allergy" ... he'd have more symptoms that just headaches.
sensitivity to a substance (large effect with small dose) is not an allergy.
Dec 31st, '08, 00:04
Posts: 1051
Joined: Jul 7th, '07, 01:37
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:
ABx
With consequences as severe as this, I would be very very careful about what tests to recommend. Blind tests would be fine if the symptoms are mild, but this is pretty severe.
When you were at the local tea shop, did they brew up a sample for you? I think the main thing you will want to do is to make certain that it is the tea and not something that you're using. Having tea brewed at the shop would be one way.
Another thing you could do is to use all the same utensils that you do with the bagged tea; maybe you could even open up one of the teabags and put some of the loose leaf tea that gives you problems.
Lastly, brew up one of the teas that give you problems and get someone else to drink it - see if they have the same reaction (heh, as cruel as it is you may not want to tell them the full extent of the problems it caused you).
The other possible chemical in tea that I can think of would be Theanine, although black tea doesn't usually have as much of it - though that may be the difference between the bagged and the loose stuff.
Of course we're also kind of assuming that you're not drinking flavored teas. If you are, then try some unflavored.
I think it bears repeating, however, that you should really get an allergy test. This is, after all, a medical issue, and nobody here is really qualified to make judgement on that kind of thing (although I do realize that you probably posted in hopes of finding someone that already knew all about this). Tell your doctor what's going on; they might be able to target it for you, and that would be the very best way to go.
When you were at the local tea shop, did they brew up a sample for you? I think the main thing you will want to do is to make certain that it is the tea and not something that you're using. Having tea brewed at the shop would be one way.
Another thing you could do is to use all the same utensils that you do with the bagged tea; maybe you could even open up one of the teabags and put some of the loose leaf tea that gives you problems.
Lastly, brew up one of the teas that give you problems and get someone else to drink it - see if they have the same reaction (heh, as cruel as it is you may not want to tell them the full extent of the problems it caused you).
The other possible chemical in tea that I can think of would be Theanine, although black tea doesn't usually have as much of it - though that may be the difference between the bagged and the loose stuff.
Of course we're also kind of assuming that you're not drinking flavored teas. If you are, then try some unflavored.
I think it bears repeating, however, that you should really get an allergy test. This is, after all, a medical issue, and nobody here is really qualified to make judgement on that kind of thing (although I do realize that you probably posted in hopes of finding someone that already knew all about this). Tell your doctor what's going on; they might be able to target it for you, and that would be the very best way to go.
