netsurfr... for real?

[Salsero]

7. Vendors may not place links or e-mail addresses on this forum leading to their businesses. This is not a place for free advertising (unless its through word-of mouth of members in good standing). In addition, members shall not actively sell or offer to obtain products via posts, PMs or any other contact with members. The exception being TeaSwap which Moderators may determine particular offers not within the spirit of this program.

Aren't rules handy!! This seems to address the issue very precisely: "members shall not actively sell or offer to obtain products via posts." Case closed.

[Chip]

OK, weird, I just received a PM from a non ITDer mentioning that he received an unwelcome PM from this guy tring to sell him some pu-erh.

I have sent netsurfr a PM including the rules of TC. He will be getting a crash course.

[fencerdenoctum]

I guess I should have kept that axe....

[scruffmcgruff]

Am I the only one that isn't really upset about this guy? Perhaps he is a little overzealous in his posting, but I have zero problem with him organizing group buys in TeaSwap.

I don't mind if he makes some pocket money out of it either, as he is taking his time to provide a valuable service. It's not like he could possibly make a living out of this! I've ordered samples of shaving creams through another guy on B&B, and I was very happy with the service.

Just because he is organized and has his prices figured out does not mean he is being fishy, IMO.

[Space Samurai]

Am I the only one that isn't really upset about this guy?

I don't think he is much of a problem, nor do I think he is anything like the average spammer, but he has kind of crossed the line. I think a little nudging will do the trick.

This is a somewhat vague area. Sure there are a lot of larger internet tea companies, but there are also a lot of dudes selling tea off of their ebay pages and blogs and what not.

[Wesli]

Ugh. So I just received an e-mail from a "T.J. Tracy" about this guy. I'm too lazy to summarize the e-mail, so since his main goal was to get it to some of the powerful of TeaChat, I'm posting it here.

Hi, Wesley.

My name's T.J. Tracy. I'm an avid (non-member) reader of TeaChat's Puerh forum, and a customer of Yunnan Sourcing.

Earlier this evening I read the recent "group pu-erh buy" posting there, and saw that both you and hop_goblin had responded to it with some skepticism. Well founded, I think, as a little digging revealed that "netsurfr" has evidently been buying pu'er from Scott and plastering offerings of samples at inflated prices at a number of shaving forums (huh?), as well as at TeaChat.

While I admire "netsurfr"'s entrepreneurial spirit, it ticks me off to think that Scott's business might suffer considerably at the hands of this fellow, and I've mentioned it to Scott via e-mail.

Forgive me, please, for writing to you out of the blue on this matter - you showed up earliest when I viewed the member list at TeaChat, and it seems likely you'd be in a sound position as a respected member to clarify for your fellow chatters, and to snuff this spamming "dude" effectively.

Here's an illustrative link (there are others, available if you run a net search for "netsurfr"):

http://www.theshaveden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8062

With regards,
Terry
T.J. Tracy, Loveland, CO

P.S. I have greatly enjoyed and benefited from your postings. Thanks.

We should just get rid of his illicit posts and be done with it.

[Chip]

He will not be selling on TC. He will cease PMing members selling his wares.

I simply directed him to the rules and told him I awaited a reply. He got it. Hopefully all is well in TC land once more. He was "thankful" for my pointing this out. I then informed him that perhaps at some point in the future we might be able to work something in TeaSwap. I also let him know some editing would take place to his posts.

He seemed fine and was on TC later.

Teaguy returned after a week or so of absence after straightening him out as well.

Currently TC does not have a central area for selling for guys like TeaGuy and netsurfr. It does open up a Pandora's box that once open may be very hard to keep control of.

I am not in favor of permitting this activity in the GF except in a designated area.

[TIM]

Great Job Guys! This is a honest reason why I am a loyal supporter of this marketing free group, or perhaps a addict....

[Wesli]

cool

[scruffmcgruff]

What the *freak*? How on earth is he hurting Scott's business by buying things from him and reselling them to people who otherwise would not want to pay for tea in bulk? If anything, he is promoting YSLLC! I'm sorry, but I don't see why he is such a problem; if someone could explain to me how he is harming anyone (I could understand Adagio being upset about this, but that doesn't seem to be the case), I'd love to hear it.

If we are worried about this stuff getting out of control, lets make him post more before he can sell samples in TeaSwap. Pretty simple, and that way you can give the boot to random vendors who show up and try to hawk their crap.

[Chip]

Edit: Ooops, Scruff edited prior to my posting, directing this activity more towards TeaSwap, which I have already mentioned to netsurfr as I mentioned above.

Not being a smart azz, Scruff ... just from my perspective and broadly accepted forum rules:

The way it is now, it is "harming" everyone in that we have had to bear the burden of it til now
New to forum
Did not read forum rules
Did not follow forum rules
Started selling all over the forum
Unsolicited PM's selling his product
What if everyone decided to do this
Opens up a whole "gray area" where it is currently black and white and fair to all
TC is not a commerce site
No self promotion posting
Half his posts are sales pitches
It got old really quick
Complaints received

Maybe create an avenue for this later, such as TeaSwap, but I for one do not care to wade through sales pitches all over the forum and trying to decide what is real and what is not. If someone has nothing to gain by posting, it tends to be more genuine, if someone posts hoping to derive some benefit, a sale, the post loses credibility.

A mention or two would have been fine, but it just really became a repeating commercial. His posts as a result became eye rollers.

[Salsero]

A mention or two would have been fine, but it just really became a repeating commercial. His posts as a result became eye rollers.

My feeling is that Chip handled it very nicely and that Netsurfr responded like a real gentleman. Our rule is very explicit about this. A big part of the problem was a difference in culture between the B&B forum and this one.

I am impressed with both guys. I also like the idea of leaving TeaSwap as a possible relief valve for special cases of real members who are making some kind of offer.

Scruff, I agree about Scott. Scott's business model surely already involves some volume or wholesale types of arrangements. Even if it were hurting Scott's business, that wouldn't be a concern for this forum. But I thought it was very telling that a total lurker was irritated by repeated offers just as I was and just as Proinsias on his B&B activities.

I agree with Chip, Wesli, Tim, and Hop, I do not want tea pitches in TeaChat. At first, I expected them from Adagio and when they never came, it was like a big breath of relief that the forum really is open!

If pitches came from Stéphane or Jim or Scott or Kam or Gordon I would feel the same. In fact, Jim is the model I would like to see for vendor participation: he answers questions, responds with information, and gets out. He has never defended a tea or suggested a tea or commented on a review or even mentioned that he has tea for sale. He has never PM’d me.

I am happy to see that Netsurfr seems to be back posting in a normal fashion which leads me to believe that his interest is not primarily commercial, but fellowship. Whew! I hate crises.

[scruffmcgruff]

Thanks for responding, a lot of those comments made sense. I haven't exactly been watching the forum like I used to, so I didn't know the extent of his repeated posting/pitches/etc. That stuff is annoying as hell, and I'm definitely in favor of reigning in that sort of behavior.

On the other hand, I am in favor of allowing people to sell samples or orchestrate group buys if they do so in a civilized manner. A single post in TeaSwap (and ONLY in TeaSwap) detailing his prices/options/etc. seems to be in the spirit of the forum, IMO, though perhaps the existing TeaSwap regulations should be stricter for sales (as opposed to trades).

[TIM]

Edit: Ooops, Scruff edited prior to my posting, directing this activity more towards TeaSwap, which I have already mentioned to netsurfr as I mentioned above.

Not being a smart azz, Scruff ... just from my perspective and broadly accepted forum rules:

The way it is now, it is "harming" everyone in that we have had to bear the burden of it til now
New to forum
Did not read forum rules
Did not follow forum rules
Started selling all over the forum
Unsolicited PM's selling his product
What if everyone decided to do this
Opens up a whole "gray area" where it is currently black and white and fair to all
TC is not a commerce site
No self promotion posting
Half his posts are sales pitches
It got old really quick
Complaints received

Maybe create an avenue for this later, such as TeaSwap, but I for one do not care to wade through sales pitches all over the forum and trying to decide what is real and what is not. If someone has nothing to gain by posting, it tends to be more genuine, if someone posts hoping to derive some benefit, a sale, the post loses credibility.

A mention or two would have been fine, but it just really became a repeating commercial. His posts as a result became eye rollers.

I think this is a great example:
http://www.teachat.com/search.php?searc ... chardr2009

Most of the time, you have to "Kill the Chicken to Scare the Monkey"!

[TIM]

I am having a very impatient week lately..... And this might be one of the reasons? Let me know as of a "poll". Can I unload on this guy? I think there are enough bad info on the web regarding tea already, including nonsenses like this http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=30 on our chat are just begging for proper discipline. Snapple White jasmine tea TV ad is just too much for me.... even it is entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znAoCGATk8w