Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!

[chrl42]

and if you dont read chinese, here is my english translation of it :
1. Are there "Non-Factory 1" Pots in the 60s or Seventies?

Many collectors may have come across such stories --> , i.e. this pot was made from clay that was secretly smuggled out from the factory and made by the craftsman at his own home, that is why the shape is different but the clay is the same!

but the truth is, in the 60s and 70s, such things are not possible. that is because of the cultural revolution during this period, where no one talks about parental love, where everyone lives in run down environments that are in shambles, who would dare to steal clay to make pots and even run a private kiln? china back then was like north korea, do you think any north korean would dare to steal something from his factory to be brought home, and then build himself a kiln at home to fire pots without anyone else discovering?!

Not just the society atmosphere, during the CR, no one could think about making money selling teapots. During this period everyone was poor and the price of Yixing was comparable to kitchen utilities. Anything related to capitalism was well-observed..and an individual makes teapot and runs a kiln at home to sell or smuggle..Hongweibing might wait for him before profits

Everything changed when Chairman Deng headed China and K.S Lo came down to Yixing to open Mingjia (master) market for HK and Taiwan..Yixing sure owns a debt to coastal Chinese for their early days I think...btw that article is quite well-written and has important points for the rumours that might be haunting falsely around the market

[kyarazen]

hmm.. nice apple~

*edit forgot to add, these pots are owned by Wu Yung Chih of Penghu Gu Cha Fang~ i've procured stuff from him before, really nice guy and he always goes for the very best of items~

this is the "black" apple of the 60s, and the first ones to be made. in subsequent years this pot has been heavily re-issued, replicated and cloned, particularly by other factories.

the original/early one is not cheap, the late gen re-issues can be "dirt cheap".. so are you making your dollars worth it on a black apple purchase? to be studied

[AT333]

Looks delicious! Thanks for sharing kyarazen.

[chrl42]

I think this style was to continue the Japanese Senchado market that had been popular during late-Qing/ROC (Edo-Meiji)..the Japanese also liked small Yixings and cups, I heard their preference was pretty Gongfucha-alike.

The clay also imitated Qing dynasty Wu-ni (black-grey clay made from reduction method)..Hei Tie Sha is a blended clay because Factory-1 couldn't operate in reduction method (reduction in air) for mass production.

Later Hei Pingguo was hoarded by the Taiwanese to play for Gaoshan Oolong.

[AT333]

I think this style was to continue the Japanese Senchado market that had been popular during late-Qing/ROC (Edo-Meiji)..the Japanese also liked small Yixings and cups, I heard their preference was pretty Gongfucha-alike.

The clay also imitated Qing dynasty Wu-ni (black-grey clay made from reduction method)..Hei Tie Sha is a blended clay because Factory-1 couldn't operate in reduction method (reduction in air) for mass production.

Later Hei Pingguo was hoarded by the Taiwanese to play for Gaoshan Oolong.

Thanks for sharing the information chrl42. This shape is good for gaoshan for sure. Xianpiao is also another popular choice for Gaoshan oolong.

By the way, I have a question on teapot cup size and I am sure you can enlighten me. What is the official cup size in ml for Yixing teapot? Normally 20ml is used widely as a cup size but I saw some posting using 13ml as cup size. Any thoughts on this?

[chrl42]

I think this style was to continue the Japanese Senchado market that had been popular during late-Qing/ROC (Edo-Meiji)..the Japanese also liked small Yixings and cups, I heard their preference was pretty Gongfucha-alike.

The clay also imitated Qing dynasty Wu-ni (black-grey clay made from reduction method)..Hei Tie Sha is a blended clay because Factory-1 couldn't operate in reduction method (reduction in air) for mass production.

Later Hei Pingguo was hoarded by the Taiwanese to play for Gaoshan Oolong.

Thanks for sharing the information chrl42. This shape is good for gaoshan for sure. Xianpiao is also another popular choice for Gaoshan oolong.

By the way, I have a question on teapot cup size and I am sure you can enlighten me. What is the official cup size in ml for Yixing teapot? Normally 20ml is used widely as a cup size but I saw some posting using 13ml as cup size. Any thoughts on this?

From what I know, the cup size in Taiwan and mainland are not the same. 20ml perhaps is Taiwan's size..I heard mainland's is smaller.

[AT333]

Thanks chrl42. Perhaps that is reason for different volume used when they refer to cup size. I am curious why it is so, because the teapot comes from Yixing China and the Taiwanese should follow the China's volume. It is quite a basic information when they refer to teapot. What is the de facto volume amongst collector? Most of posting I have seen use 20ml. What is China's cup size volume?

Can I ask if the black apple pot above is by reduction firing? If it is, any idea on the original clay?

[kyarazen]

By the way, I have a question on teapot cup size and I am sure you can enlighten me. What is the official cup size in ml for Yixing teapot? Normally 20ml is used widely as a cup size but I saw some posting using 13ml as cup size. Any thoughts on this?

based on yixing's CR to Green label era catalogue, it had been published by F1 the following :

4 cup shuiping - 60cc (avg 15/cup)
6 cup shuiping = 80cc (avg 12.5/cup)
8 cup shuiping = 110cc (avg 13.75/cup)
12 cup shuiping = 150cc (avg 12.5/cup)


if you go back to the early 60s, where the pots are marked 4 cup, 5 cup, 6 cup, 8 cup, 12 cup, (with 5 and 8 being more uncommon), the volumes had been published in dr lv's book to be 60, 75, 87cc, 105cc, 155cc based on actual measured volumes. that averages to arond 13 to 15ml per cup.

the exact measurements are also made more sophisticated by the shrinkage of wares during firing, that zini pots vs hongni pots from the same mould can have slightly different volumes.

in taiwan, typically 1 cup = 20ml

[kyarazen]

Can I ask if the black apple pot above is by reduction firing? If it is, any idea on the original clay?

nope not reduction fired! if reduction fired the surface when you look at it will not be multi colored but instead a flat color.

the original clay? open for discussion and debate. it is known amongst the taiwanese higher end collectors that the 60s black apples are not "heitiesha" (black sand clay), but instead a type of dark zini called 茄紫泥. if you have the fortune to have handled the 60s heipingguo, or the 10 cup pidgeon beak from the 60s to early 70s, they are all made of this type of 茄紫泥 that takes on a dark purplish hue, on photos almost resembling "hei-ni". the texture is very nice and 润手, it is different feel and density from the hei-tie-sha heipingguos of the mid 70s!

which was why i had posed a subtle question, so, what is a really good apple or are all black apples highly valued? there is a reason why the 60s one fetch a huge premium over the 70s, and over the 80s (mid 80s where heini/hei-pin was well mixed and produced to supply other factories). weight and density wise, the 60s one feels the weightiest, the 80s one feels well fired, ring-gy, but more porous.

[AT333]

Thanks kyarazen! Appreciate it. I was fortunate enough to come in contact with the 茄紫泥 pots and like the sheen of it. Some F1 茄紫泥 pots prices are shooting sky high.

[kyarazen]

Thanks kyarazen! Appreciate it. I was fortunate enough to come in contact with the 茄紫泥 pots and like the sheen of it. Some F1 茄紫泥 pots prices are shooting sky high.

not simple!
being in sg able to be acquainted and to know this "classification" and the current market rates i'm quite awed actually. perhaps some day we should meet to talk pots. thats if you're not whom i think who you are

[AT333]

Thanks kyarazen! Appreciate it. I was fortunate enough to come in contact with the 茄紫泥 pots and like the sheen of it. Some F1 茄紫泥 pots prices are shooting sky high.

not simple!
being in sg able to be acquainted and to know this "classification" and the current market rates i'm quite awed actually. perhaps some day we should meet to talk pots. thats if you're not whom i think who you are

Nice!

[AT333]

Anymore nice teapot to share?

[kyarazen]

Anymore nice teapot to share?

many..many more... but i'm feeling like a snail..

[steanze]

I've seen a pretty awesome F1 benshanlvni pot recently (Kyarazen knows what pot I am talking about ) but I don't know who ended up getting it so I don't know if I should post pictures of it because I can't ask the current owner for permission...