Aug 19th, '09, 10:58
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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by Zanaspus » Aug 19th, '09, 10:58

Cinnamon Kitty wrote:As much as I love Alton Brown, I would disregard his advice on tea. You definitely want something that can brew many types of teas, especially given that you want to try to them all and cast iron will retain way too much heat for the more temperature sensitive teas.
+1
Alton is one of my food gods, but his tea episode showed no more knowledge than spending an hour at Teavana.

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Aug 19th, '09, 18:46
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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by tingjunkie » Aug 19th, '09, 18:46

paisan70 wrote: 2) Thank you, tingjunkie, but I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that there is a different brewing method between a gaiwan and a glass teapot?
Yes, and no. Depends on how you use it! :D

A nice gaiwan is generally around 3 - 4 oz in volume. Therefore, it's well suited to brewing very expensive teas where you wouldn't want to use lots of leaf all at once. Also, it's an excellent neutral vessel for brewing in the traditional Chinese "gongfu" way. There is a lot of info out there to be found on this topic, but in short, it's when you brew multiple (between 4 to 20 or more), short steepings of the same leaves (usually very good oolongs and puerhs) in order to bring out the great complexities, scents, and flavor layers.

Teapots, whether glass, porcelain, or otherwise (except for Yixing which are used for gongfu tea), are generally much larger than gaiwans. They are much better suited for "western style" brewing which is, in very general terms, using around 1 tsp of leaf per 6 oz of water, and then brewing the leaves only once or twice for several minutes at a time.

Unless you have a strong desire to start with pricey oolongs and puerhs, you can probably skip the gaiwan for now, and then get one later if you feel drawn to the whole gongfu thing.

For what it's worth, I have been "into" good loose leaf tea for about 4 years now. Like you, I was drawn to tetsubins (cast iron pots) in the beginning and bought a huge 26 oz one because I did not have the benefit of having this great and knowledgeable community talk me out of it. If I had to do it over again, I would have skipped the tetsubin, and bought a nice 12-16 oz glass pot. Glass is neutral, easy to clean, does not retain scents, and you get to learn more by seeing what is happening to the leaves inside.

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Aug 20th, '09, 00:20
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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by Cinnamon Kitty » Aug 20th, '09, 00:20

paisan70 wrote:Similarly, Cinnamon, is there a different brewing method between a gaiwan and a kyusu? They are both BEAUTIFUL and I'd be happy to get both especially because they don't seem that expensive, but why get both?
Just to make this interesting, yes and no. In the big picture sense, both are just vessels in which tea leaves can mingle with hot water to form the wondrous liquid that we call "tea," which can then be decanted to another vessel so that you can enjoy the brew sans leaves.

The actual difference is more in the style of the brewing. The kyusu is a teapot with a spout and screen that prevents the leaves from traveling up the said spout and into your cup. It has a lid and a nifty side handle. The gaiwan is more of a cup with a lid and saucer, in which the lid is used to block the leaves from pouring out of the cup as the tea is decanted.

The main reason to get both is not necessarily because they will brew things completely differently, but because of the ease of brewing different types teas in each. Though it is doable and there are pictures on this forum somewhere to prove that it can be done, using a very fine, small leaf tea in a gaiwan without a mesh filter has a high chance of you ending up with a cup full of tea leaves and a large mess to clean up, which does not make for an overly fun tea time for a beginner. The same tea with the very fine, small leaves would be so much easier to brew in the kyusu with the filter to hold the leaves back from going into your tea.

On the flip side, if you have an oolong with huge leaves, brewing it in the kyusu has no really benefit since the leaves are too big to need to be filtered in that manner, and would mostly clog the mesh filter from their size. In a gawain, the gentle pressure of the lid holds the larger leaves back while still allowing the tea to escape to your cup without getting clogged up. Then again, we've had people on TeaChat brew oolongs in a kyusu too, so either method can be perfectly viable for any type of tea, but it just depends on ease of use and user preference.

Having both a gaiwan and kyusu with a mesh filter/strainer gives you an easy way to brew anything from the tiny tea leaves of a Japanese green to the biggest leaves of a puerh or an oolong that you can stuff into the gaiwan. Tingjunkie already touched upon the size capacity differences and brewing styles rather nicely, and those apply to the kyusu and gaiwan as well.

As a side note, a simple glass or porcelain teapot could work fine too, but through my own experimentation, I have successfully broken both of my pieces of glass teaware and keep burning my knuckles on my porcelain teapot with its back handle. I've found the side handles on the kyusu make for a more natural and less awkward way to pour tea. Also, after figuring out how to hold the gaiwan correctly, burnt fingers are rarely an issue.

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Aug 20th, '09, 22:24
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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by finddream2020 » Aug 20th, '09, 22:24

i think may be the pot which has good clay, traditional style but not made by a famous artist is suit for you.

a good clay and traditiaonl style but not made by a good artisit is about 20-50usd dollors

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Aug 21st, '09, 20:23
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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by beachape » Aug 21st, '09, 20:23

+1 for the kyusu and gaiwan. I would buy a cheap porcelain kyusu from dens with the starter samplers and a gaiwan somewhere else. Kyusu will be better for Japanese greens and can be easier to handle when you are lazy and want a greater volume of tea faster. Also get a gaiwan to use for gongfu style or small batches. Both are cheap and fun to play with.

Aug 25th, '09, 05:35
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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by paisan70 » Aug 25th, '09, 05:35

Hey, I just want to thank everyone for your enlightened responses. I have decided to begin now with a gaiwan. I'm basically going to try ALL tea in it. But around black Thursday I'll look for a kyusu and play around with that one next. This may be my last post for a while; I'll post at the end of the year to let you know my thoughts.

P.S. I didn't mention this before because I just wasn't ready for the poo-poos, whereas now I am: wouldn't you all agree that my glass french press coffee maker would not be appropriate for tea?
Last edited by paisan70 on Aug 26th, '09, 15:28, edited 1 time in total.

Aug 25th, '09, 05:49
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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by Proinsias » Aug 25th, '09, 05:49

A French press will churn out some pretty decent tea, could even work in place of the cheap kyusu.

Catch you later alligator

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Aug 25th, '09, 05:53
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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by Carl » Aug 25th, '09, 05:53

Agree that the french press will work pretty well. The tea guy at Central Market in Dallas uses one and sold me mine. I enjoyed using it for the Chinese tea sampler I bought. Wouldn't be the recommended weapon of choice for Japanese sencha...

Happy tea leaves!

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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by Zanaspus » Aug 25th, '09, 07:57

paisan70 wrote:Hey, I just want to thank everyone for your enlightened responses. I have decided to begin now with a gaiwan. I'm basically going to try ALL tea in it. But around black Tuesday I'll look for a kyusu and play around with that one next. This is may be my last post for a while; I'll post at the end of the year to let you know my thoughts.

P.S. I didn't mention this before because I just wasn't ready for the poo-poos, whereas now I am: wouldn't you all agree that my glass french press coffee maker would not be appropriate for tea?
Good choice. One of the few "firsts" in any field of endeavor that you'll still use 15 years down the road.

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Aug 26th, '09, 07:36
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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by Rainy-Day » Aug 26th, '09, 07:36

Not to discourage you from a gaiwan or anything like that; I like gaiwans myself from the point of view of minimalism/simplicity and aesthetics and taking up little space, but I must warn you that you should not give up on greens and whites if they don't turn out very well out of a gaiwan compared to other types of tea. I know that many people do like whites and greens with a gaiwan but I suspect it's because my tastes are on the side of a lighter brew of these teas, and I know that gaiwans do work reasonably well if you're brewing a cup with intense, thick flavor. Get a gaiwan and then kyusu (I ordered my first one today!), but consider geting a glass/porcelain later on, too.

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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by paisan70 » Aug 26th, '09, 15:31

OK. Now you've forced me back into making another post. For those who just recently said it is OK to use my french press for tea (much to my surprise), do you also mean to say that it is OK even though I normally use it for coffee? I can assure you that I use white vinegar about every 5th time to get rid of any stains, deposits, or old flavors, but is that enough to clear the way for tea without any intruding coffee flavors?

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Aug 26th, '09, 15:35
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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by wyardley » Aug 26th, '09, 15:35

re: French press; my usual advice when people ask this question is that sure, you can use it, but for the love of god, don't PRESS on the leaves. Take the press apparatus out entirely if you can, or just leave it all the way up. With tea, generally speaking, you want to give the leaves as much room as possible to expand, and (with some rare exceptions), you don't want to actually press on the leaves. But at that point, you have basically just a funny-shaped teapot, so I don't really see the point unless you already have one around and are trying to save some money.

A lot of restaurants like to use French presses for tea, but I think it's mostly because they like the aesthetics (and not having to have something separate from what they use for coffee).

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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by Chip » Aug 26th, '09, 15:44

paisan70 wrote:OK. Now you've forced me back into making another post. For those who just recently said it is OK to use my french press for tea (much to my surprise), do you also mean to say that it is OK even though I normally use it for coffee? I can assure you that I use white vinegar about every 5th time to get rid of any stains, deposits, or old flavors, but is that enough to clear the way for tea without any intruding coffee flavors?
Coffee aromas can be rather persistant. I can detect coffee aroma in anything that has just about ever been used for coffee.

And as Wyardley stated, don't plunge, just use the screen as a screen and pour. I have a bunch from my early tea days. I generally use then for large batches of iced tea. I have a small one that since it is fairly tall, I use to display/brew white teas.

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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by beachape » Aug 27th, '09, 01:18

As mentioned coffee taste lingers....even with vinegar cleaning. A porcelain kyusu will give you more versatility and ease of use IMO. I tried the french press and wasn't crazy about it. That doesn't mean that it won't work fine. A warning though, teapots/tea-ware are like potato chips. You can't eat just one.

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Re: New to tea ... so what beginner teapot?

by paisan70 » Aug 30th, '09, 00:42

To my new acquaintances, Zanaspus, Tingjunkie, Chip, and the others, yet another expression of gratitude to you all for the advice you've given me. Last night I made the plunge (could have used another virgin cliche but I refrained). I went to Teavana (see that experience in the next paragraph) and allowed the beautiful sales clerk (what a pushover I am) to convince me to get the Six Summits Oolong Tea. My comments on it will be in the appropriate forum elsewhere at this site. She also convinced me to get a tin (a masculine royal blue one of course). And I purchased the german rock cane sugar jar which I might be returning. I will be finding a gaiwan in the next month, but meanwhile I took your advice and began with a designated glass pot. I will add that I took one whiff of the french press filter - HOOEY! Wonderful coffee smell that would obviously affect the tea, so no french press for me. I found a different glass pot.

What I will share with you here as a new post for your intrigue and amuzement is the sales clerk's adamant promotion of the tetsubin teapots they have there. As you may recall I began my post asking if that was a good type pot to get. And we've heard it before, right? No other pot conducts the heat as well as the tetsubin. I will continue to value your opinion more than the Teavana sales clerks but it did surprise me how much she seemed to insist that the tetsubin was more desirable than any other vessel to brew tea. Anyhoo, just thought you might be interested in my Teavan Tetsubin experience. PEACE! :P

PostScript: I already get the impression I made a mistake with the Six Summits Oolong. I wish I could find a blog where I can give my own beginner tasting notes. I would use the name "Beginner Brandon".

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