Kukicha (Bancha Twig ) Tea and Calcium?

[olivierco]

Actually, all kukicha is bancha. The kukicha/karigane distinction is purely marketing.

So even stems from first flush sencha or gyokuro are bancha?

No according to Ippodo

http://www.ippodo-tea.co.jp/en/tea/grouping.html

[beforewisdom]

I bought some fairly expensive organic sencha (over $30 per 100g) from a local teashop once...it still had some aroma but the taste was severely lacking...I tried everything I could to try and get a stronger flavour out of it...only thing that worked was roasting it in a cast iron pan to make houjicha. I decided it just wasn´t worth buying sencha local, it goes stale too easily...sounds like you ran into the same problem.

Wouldn't imported tea, that has been on a trip also tend to be stale?

I don't know if it is folklore or not, but a friend of mine who has been into green tea for years ( he started it to get himself off of soda ) told me he read in a book that new green tea drinkers can't really taste the difference between expensive and ordinary green tea.

I know that doesn't apply to you, but I'm enjoying being a beginner and getting the same experience for a much lower price

[entropyembrace]

Actually, all kukicha is bancha. The kukicha/karigane distinction is purely marketing.

So even stems from first flush sencha or gyokuro are bancha?

No according to Ippodo

http://www.ippodo-tea.co.jp/en/tea/grouping.html

The classification ippodo uses is more like what I expected from how people here and most vendors use the term bancha.

[entropyembrace]

I bought some fairly expensive organic sencha (over $30 per 100g) from a local teashop once...it still had some aroma but the taste was severely lacking...I tried everything I could to try and get a stronger flavour out of it...only thing that worked was roasting it in a cast iron pan to make houjicha. I decided it just wasn´t worth buying sencha local, it goes stale too easily...sounds like you ran into the same problem.

Wouldn't imported tea, that has been on a trip also tend to be stale?

I don't know if it is folklore or not, but a friend of mine who has been into green tea for years ( he started it to get himself off of soda ) told me he read in a book that new green tea drinkers can't really taste the difference between expensive and ordinary green tea.

I know that doesn't apply to you, but I'm enjoying being a beginner and getting the same experience for a much lower price

I´m not new to tea, but I´m new to green tea, especially Japanese green tea. My first taste of sencha was Yutaka Midor Kaoru Supreme LE from O-Cha...one of their more expensive senchas...in the same week I tried some other senchas too, a couple of them were quite a bit less expensive and I could tell the difference immediately. Also family members who are new to tea can tell easily the difference between budget sencha and premium sencha. I think the difference is really not so subtle...that YM Supreme hits you with it´s aroma as soon as you open the bag and I dont think you need a refined pallate to taste it´s thick soupy buttery sweetness in the cup either...it´s not a subtle tea...None of the premium senchas I have tried are.

Not that you have to buy really expensive tea...the shops I order from, O-cha and Zencha.net both have budget teas which are good and they take care to make sure they are delivered to you fresh.

As for imported tea...well all tea is imported...so the difference is if you buy local your co-op or tea shop or whatever gets a huge bag of tea sent to them from Japan (or their wholesaler does which means the tea is sitting around even longer), opens it, puts it in a jar on a shelf and it sits there for months exposed to light and air each time it´s opened...and if it´s a glass jar the situation is even worse because it´s constantly exposed to light.

When you buy from Japan yourself the shop you order from takes your tea out from cold storage (where it can be kept fresh for an extended period) just before shipping, packs it into small vacuum flushed bags that do a good job of protecting your tea and ship it immediately to you. Shipping from Japan to Canada takes about 2 weeks by airmail and 5 days by EMS...to the US could be even faster since Canada Post is slooooooooooooooow.

So either way the tea is imported, and it goes on a journey, but buying from Japan that journey is a lot shorter and the tea is protected better so that the tea is fresh when it arrives at your doorstep.

I do buy some teas locally but they´re mostly black teas which have much longer shelf lives than green tea, so I don´t have to worry about them going stale before I get them.

[edkrueger]

Look at the chart again. They do include, at least roasted, Kukicha as bancha. Also on their sales website their include konacha as bancha.

We can agree to disagree on the bancha thing, but the kukicha/karigane distinction is still purely marketing.

[edkrueger]

Also, I don't see why its such of big deal if they are bancha. A good Yanagi can be better than a bad ichibancha asumushi and better that any ichibancha fukamushi.

[AdamMY]

any ichibancha fukamushi.

Now you are trying to get people to fight back!

Anyway I agree with the main point being, just because a Japanese tea is labeled as Shincha/ Sencha or any other Ichibancha, does not make it good. There are many teas that are exemplary from a group that is often viewed as "second class" such as Bancha.

I think the are wrongfully labeled as second class, because good tea is good tea, and bad tea is bad tea, any other label is just extra information.

(I will admit other labels do make it easier to initially decide how you should approach the treatment of a tea).

[rdl]

Actually, all kukicha is bancha. The kukicha/karigane distinction is purely marketing.

So even stems from first flush sencha or gyokuro are bancha?

No according to Ippodo

http://www.ippodo-tea.co.jp/en/tea/grouping.html

thanks for posting the chart - it is a very good illustration of industry classifications. but it is strange, based on my very informal, non-scientific experience, the japanese in general won't be as specific with their definition of bancha. maybe someone can explain that. that's why earlier i wrote this word is used in a more open manner. but as we agree on, ichibancha stem sencha or gyokuro is not bancha.

[rdl]

Look at the chart again. They do include, at least roasted, Kukicha as bancha. Also on their sales website their include konacha as bancha.

We can agree to disagree on the bancha thing, but the kukicha/karigane distinction is still purely marketing.

do you mean the word use of either kukicha/karigane? or keeping the stems and selling it? maybe i didn't understand
i don't think bancha means second class, i think it is an indication of harvest or leaf size. banchas are super teas and with food or after a meal are not second class. sencha or shincha are also excellent teas and like all products some are better than others and much of it is personal taste.

[edkrueger]

I've seen some companies insist that the their kukicha isn't kukicha, its karigane. Really, the terms are interchangeable.

[rdl]

I've seen some companies insist that the their kukicha isn't kukicha, its karigane. Really, the terms are interchangeable.

i don't doubt marketing plays a big part, for better or worse, but i thought the difference is regional. the kyoto region using karigane and other regions the more common kukicha. maybe a japanese speaker can verify this. in your case above, i agree, it would be marketing.

[kymidwife]

Ummmm thread-drift? I'll bet the OP is still wondering about calcium.

[beforewisdom]

Ummmm thread-drift? I'll bet the OP is still wondering about calcium.

I'm the OP. I originally heard that idea when I was a teen, from a fan of macrobiotics and those are the only people I heard it from. I'm guessing that it is nutrition folklore, especially since the tea is common in Asia. Some responsible agency in Asia would have reported it long ago if it was the case and the knowledge would have made it to us or at least somewhere on the web.

Like I wrote, nobody mentions how much or who measured it.

[rdl]

Ummmm thread-drift? I'll bet the OP is still wondering about calcium.

I'm the OP. I originally heard that idea when I was a teen, from a fan of macrobiotics and those are the only people I heard it from. I'm guessing that it is nutrition folklore, especially since the tea is common in Asia. Some responsible agency in Asia would have reported it long ago if it was the case and the knowledge would have made it to us or at least somewhere on the web.

Like I wrote, nobody mentions how much or who measured it.

here is what the macrobiotics say:
"Although there has been very little, if any, medical research into the health benefits of drinking kukicha or twig tea, traditional folklore suggests that this beverage has a soothing, beneficial effect on digestion, blood quality, and the mind. Several macrobiotic healing tonics made from combinations of kukicha, soy sauce, and umeboshi or ume extract have many medicinal uses, ranging from alkalizing the blood to relieving hangovers. Chemical analysis of the kukicha twigs has shown that the tea may be a good source of calcium, iron, and vitamins A and C, and because it has very little caffeine, it is safe for children and infants to drink."

[skilfautdire]

Several macrobiotic healing tonics made from combinations of kukicha, soy sauce, and umeboshi or ume extract have many medicinal uses, ranging from alkalizing the blood to relieving hangovers.

Well, first of all do not drink saké which has yeast and alcohol in it (many do, unfortunately). Saké should only contain water, rice and koji.