Real or Fake Dayi? Pros and Cons of collecting Dayi?

[apache]

I take your point and view and will respect it. Thanks for the gentlemen discussion, auhckw.

[MarshalN]

Dayi teas do not generally appreciate in any meaningful way except the one or two productions that get the "speculator" treatment. They're more or less meaningless for drinking purposes, and you can always find them on the secondary market if you want more. I just don't see any good reason to acquire tongs and tongs of new Dayi cakes, whether for collection, monetary appreciation, or drinking purposes.

[gingkoseto]

Generally I am not a fan of Dayi. But I think there are indeed millions of people in China who are quite enthusiastic about Dayi (still depending on how fast Dayi inflates their new tea prices). So I think what Auhckw says about "seeing something getting sought after and price appreciated " is still quite true up to today. But this phenomenon started only from, say, 15 years ago? So nobody can say for how much longer Dayi will remain "sought after and price appreciated".

But overall, I think although most Dayi products are not the "taking your breath away" kind, they are of solid quality for what they are (as long as you don't take their "ancient arbor" label seriously), and will not become worthless. So if you imagine one day they are no longer sought after and their prices are not hotter than prices of some other teas, and you still love them and enjoy them, then it's ok to stock them (and pass some on to your children)

[gingkoseto]

Also for the real price appreciation and monetary benefits, I have the impression that most puerh that flow from collectors to the markets are in "jian" (who box of 6 tongs), for storage and validity reasons. So individual tongs and cakes don't enjoy this market (but owners of them can enjoy the good feeling if they become more expensive...)

To clarify, Auhckw, I didn't mean you should buy who boxes. I mean, price appreciation is, more often than not, a mirage.

[auhckw]

I take your point and view and will respect it. Thanks for the gentlemen discussion, auhckw.

Thanks for the understanding

Dayi teas do not generally appreciate in any meaningful way except the one or two productions that get the "speculator" treatment. They're more or less meaningless for drinking purposes, and you can always find them on the secondary market if you want more. I just don't see any good reason to acquire tongs and tongs of new Dayi cakes, whether for collection, monetary appreciation, or drinking purposes.

Well, I probably have drank about 100+ Menghai/Dayi (old and young) recipe now. Non dayi probably another 100+ (cheap and expensive), therefore I disagree that Dayi are more or less meaningless for drinking purposes...but I would agree that there are non dayi that can be nice or you can find better quality for the price you pay for some Dayi.

As for price appreciation, within only 1 year of personal storage, all my Dayi has appreciated 20% to 300% based on Malaysia market and some even if you have money, you cannot find it anymore here.

Not sure other parts of the world, but collecting Menghai/Dayi in the country I am, is definitely worth value in collection, monetary appreciation and drinking purpose.

[auhckw]

Generally I am not a fan of Dayi. But I think there are indeed millions of people in China who are quite enthusiastic about Dayi (still depending on how fast Dayi inflates their new tea prices). So I think what Auhckw says about "seeing something getting sought after and price appreciated " is still quite true up to today. But this phenomenon started only from, say, 15 years ago? So nobody can say for how much longer Dayi will remain "sought after and price appreciated".

But overall, I think although most Dayi products are not the "taking your breath away" kind, they are of solid quality for what they are (as long as you don't take their "ancient arbor" label seriously), and will not become worthless. So if you imagine one day they are no longer sought after and their prices are not hotter than prices of some other teas, and you still love them and enjoy them, then it's ok to stock them (and pass some on to your children)

Also for the real price appreciation and monetary benefits, I have the impression that most puerh that flow from collectors to the markets are in "jian" (who box of 6 tongs), for storage and validity reasons. So individual tongs and cakes don't enjoy this market (but owners of them can enjoy the good feeling if they become more expensive...)

To clarify, Auhckw, I didn't mean you should buy who boxes. I mean, price appreciation is, more often than not, a mirage.

Exactly how I feel highlighted in bold which is why I said, personal buying preference

[betta]

As for price appreciation, within only 1 year of personal storage, all my Dayi has appreciated 20% to 300% based on Malaysia market and some even if you have money, you cannot find it anymore here.

Not sure other parts of the world, but collecting Menghai/Dayi in the country I am, is definitely worth value in collection, monetary appreciation and drinking purpose.

Auhckw, that figures is very optimistic. Can a personal seller also earn that benefit or you have to source it through teashop?

[auhckw]

As for price appreciation, within only 1 year of personal storage, all my Dayi has appreciated 20% to 300% based on Malaysia market and some even if you have money, you cannot find it anymore here.

Not sure other parts of the world, but collecting Menghai/Dayi in the country I am, is definitely worth value in collection, monetary appreciation and drinking purpose.

Auhckw, that figures is very optimistic. Can a personal seller also earn that benefit or you have to source it through teashop?

I don't buy to invest or intend to sell... so my observations are based on how much I bought VS. market price that is being sold now here.

But what I observe, some people are selling the tea in cartons back to teashops at profits. So yes, it is possible to get such returns from Dayi. For non (new) dayi tea, chances lower for such resell value/profits.

[MarshalN]

Good luck then realizing those profits, or at least feeling good about it. I just can't see a good reason to buy a lot of new Dayi for storage -- the storage alone costs money in terms of space and time.

[shah82]

Geez, I suggest people don't take such tales of monetary appreciation seriously. I've been through the whole collectibles fiasco with sports cards and comic books. Still got stuff I'd never get cash out the way I put cash in, even with nice rookie cards of stars about to retire, like Alex Rodriguez. Todd McFarlane, Jim Lee, and Rob Liefield are so passé that I don't wonder anymore whether the last will draw a foot these days.

Geez, on one of my XZH purchases, I enjoyed an appreciation of about 750% in a matter of a few weeks. It doesn't mean anything other than that it would be hard to replace it, especially since I've been hacking out chunks and drinking from it. The name of the game, to me, is about getting the best drinks for as little money as possible.

Now, I'm in the camp that think auhckw buys too much Dayi, mostly because I've come to the conclusion that the market in the future will be swamped by well stored Dayi, and his kids will want some other antique he has, rather than old mediocre tea. I think the big issue is that tea is bulky. Why keep a bunch of tea you can't drink for at least 8 years? You can slim down on space by getting two good cakes that work for a living and gives you real pleasure every once in awhile. Of course, I've seen some of those nice purchases, like the pair of 2001 Yiwu Zhenshan, but do you drink from those? Maybe you should, if you don't.

[auhckw]

I knew once I started commenting on my personal preference there would be some disagreement. I would feel like commenting further on the post above, but it may lead no where and I would sound defensive.

Let's keep what personal preference be as a personal thing ok. I am very happy with what I have bought and collected. At the end of day, it is after all the most important factor in drinking tea.

[Dass]

No offence taken for the advices. Buying Dayi is my personal preference. Beside buying them for drinking, I like to buy them for collection. Like anything worth collecting, the feeling of seeing something getting sought after and price appreciated is kind of nice. Not like I have enough to sell, but I like it.

As for taste, I do agree that Dayi tea has the similarity. They call it the ‘Menghai/Dayi’ taste which only Menghai/Dayi has it. Depending on the recipe, the taste may differ a little. Some of them taste very similar, but some you can tell them it is special.

Reasons I don’t buy others often is because I already have few KGs of non big factory which is more than enough for me now. Moreover, like some already know, we get to drink free tea here from young to aged easily. We can easily ask samples to take home too, I have a full bag of samples…

That said, I like many non Dayi… just that I don’t intend to buy them yet as I can get to drink them often and buying Dayi is part of my collecting preference.

Tea is a very personal thing. You can like it, I may not...vice versa. Drink what you like, buy what you like

Chua,

Well replied.

[Dass]

I knew once I started commenting on my personal preference there would be some disagreement. I would feel like commenting further on the post above, but it may lead no where and I would sound defensive.

Let's keep what personal preference be as a personal thing ok. I am very happy with what I have bought and collected. At the end of day, it is after all the most important factor in drinking tea.

Chua,
You are not alone here.Now you know why I stopped posting to this forum long time ago,because of some individuals who don't respect your choice.Better spend my time writing in local forums where we can share our experiences.Its also good that we do not pay an arm and a leg price over here in Malaysia like others in their country or even buying in USD from China.So we have the luxury to buy cheap tea that others might have to pay double or triple.Personally I prefer menghai taste than any other brands so I collect menghai tea's.(dayi).I have been drinking pu er tea for the past 20 years and have tasted tea's from 1950's to 2000 and Menghai taste is my choice.
So fellow forumers please respect ones collecting choice.Do we argu with you not to buy your brand tea that you like? or are we using your money to buy the tea?
Buying 1pc or 1toong or 1box is up to the individual.
We are here to share tea experiences and if its a good tea we share and let our fellow tea drinkers know.
Anyway enough writing I have given up on this forum long time ago.....

[shah82]

Nobody wants to pick a fight with anyone, Dass. I actually enjoy auhckw's contributions to the forum. I like and trust the Dayi brand. I also understand that Dayi is much cheaper in Malaysia than it is for us. Collecting things can be quite fun!

However, it can also take over your life, and maintaining a sense of proportion is pretty important. There are expenses with collection, like display cases, a place to put them, paraphernalia that allows you to enjoy them the way you want, etc, etc. There will always be items you can't get, and it's always fun to chase them as you would a butterfly with a net.

Now, when you start threads where you have a hand black-light flashlight and going through your bings and seeing whether a tag responds to UV or not, that's *really* cool. But it also rings alarms because it's not the most healthy of endeavors. Always wondering whether you have the real or fake is irritating, and perpetual suspicion takes a great deal of joy out of it too. Because let's tell it how it is...If you have to check $6 bings for whether it's fake or not, you have to think that there are serious problems with the industry, ok? That's basically like counterfeiting $2 bills! And it's the whole penny-stock, junk bonds atmosphere that tells me you had (*&^*^* well better enjoy the things you have, because it's pretty likely that you'll be stuck with them!

Buying and drinking tea that you specifically can imagine drinking a great deal of is an important check. You'll still have multiple generations worth of tea, but you'll have a ton of tea you *really* like, and that's the part that's important. You might be doing just that, auhckw, but from our perspective, way out West in our Western lifestyle, it all looks risky and full of predatory speculators lurking to grab cash from innocent shoppers!

[Chip]

There is certainly bound to be much disagreement on an internet forum. This is what makes a forum invaluable. If everyone simply agreed, what would be the purpose.

We often learn through disagreement ... disagreements. I know that I have.

At times there can be a mentality that "my way is the only way (or the best way)." But this should not really surprise anyone, it is human nature.

But generally speaking, this is a very well mannered forum, I have seen much much much worse. And I have seen the other extreme where everyone is simply rubber stamping other's comments or one vendor or producer.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. (slightly paraphrased I think)