Qianlong Yixing question.

[Tead Off]

I'm not familiar with the word 'sprigged'. The dragons look applied as they are in relief. But, I can't positively tell by the photos. But comparing the decoration on yours with the W&W, they do look different in execution. But, as you say, maybe it's the photos.

If your ewer is really 18th century, you can verify the dating through a Thermoluminescence test done at Oxford. Since it's quite busted up, you wouldn't have to worry about the marks left after the samples have been taken. But, you would have to pay a lot more for the test than you paid for the ewer!

[In search of truth]

Sprigging,as I mentioned is the practice of septayely moulding the decoration abd then applying them in a leather like state to the piece before firing.
It would be very difficult to carve this decoration into the body as you would be paring down the intire body to leave the decoration in relief.

I'll know for sure next week.

There was a plain brown one sold by Woolley and Wallis in their May 2011 sale with the decoration in the same brown shade as the body.Rather austere looking but it went for £18k.

It is possible that the dating of mid 18th c came from Patrice Valfrey who wrote the book on the exhibition of 2001 which I believe was held in Belgium or France.

Where he obtained the information,I am not sure,which is what prompted the question.

All the best,

Vic

[MarshalN]

Your wrong on the tall Yixing,that is a genuine piece and it is not painted but either sprigged in buff coloured clay or slip.I'll know better when it arrives.

Also regarding Jiang Rong (which probably is a tribute piece) she was potting from a very early age and her Melon pot dates to 1984 as far as I can tell.
Incidentally,another pot that I have appears to be by her nephew and comes from the same source,so I may have two wrong'uns there.

Finding images of her early and 1970's and 80's pieces is difficult but I'm sure Chinese users of this site could point us to a few more sites than those that I have so far found.

I managed to pick up some mid to late 19th c Yixing,one with a central detachable strainer and the other with two rings that move on the top.

Dull very dry looking red clay,both cylindrical with straight spouts,one with archaic writing and bats on the top.

I enjoy collecting them but the interesting thing with the Woolley and Wallis sale last week is that many lots were £3-500 and some sold for this while one went for £22,000.

If the auction house expert hasn't a clue (and admitted when I spoke to him earlier in the week that he could only read some Seal script) then it is a very hard field to collect correctly in.

The tall pot went for £4,400 without a lid and the over handled Cultural revolution pot was unsold and bidding had reached £850 so the reserve was probably £1000.

Lots of Chinese bidders in the room and also on the telephones as the Harris collection is/was the best in Europe.

I'm not really sure what's the point of your posts, to be honest. You clearly do not wish to entertain any opinion that deviates from your own, so why bother asking questions?

[the_economist]

A pair of pots...which technically shouldn't be in this thread since these are chaozhou pots (see the rings inside the pot and the orange clay).

I boiled/clean the frog pot but not the mouse pot.

Well one good thing came out of his posts. I was curious and trawled the woolley and wallis site and found a couple of pots that look similar to my chaozhou pair (which W & W list as yixing pots lol - http://www.woolleyandwallis.co.uk/Lot/? ... 511&Lot=37, http://www.woolleyandwallis.co.uk/Lot/? ... 511&Lot=38 ). Can't say for sure if they are at the same make but I suppose its possible

[Herb_Master]

I'm not really sure what's the point of your posts, to be honest. You clearly do not wish to entertain any opinion that deviates from your own, so why bother asking questions?

+1

[In search of truth]

Marshall and Tea Master,I am coming round to your way of thinking on the Jiang Rong piece but not on the large Yixing pot.

The question was about dating and origins and was it for domestic market because of pure Chinese ornamentation.

No need for rudeness and I won't respond in the same vein anyway.

Not sure why some people cannot discuss objects without having to be rude.

[wyardley]

Not sure why some people cannot discuss objects without having to be rude.

I think the point is that you've asked a lot of questions, but have been unwilling to accept people's answers. What's the point of asking questions if you are just looking for people to validate your existing opinion.

[In search of truth]

Actually,I believe the thread was hijacked and taken a wrong turn.
This occurred from the very first reply to the post.
The original post relates to a tall Yixing pot,all the resst has been other peoples baggage.

Perhaps they should take a look inside themselves and question their motives for being do personal and vindictive.

[Chip]

... heh, perhaps everyone should have a cup of tea and take a chill pill.

[AdamMY]

For future reference, it might help if you have the pieces in your possession before you post about them. It may help your case if you can provide more detailed photos addressing peoples concerns, than just list Ebay item numbers, to send people to go look at photos. I will say even from some of the best Ebay vendors, the vendor photos are almost always sub par.

But yes it does seem that anytime you ask a question and people respond to your question, you rarely seem to like the answer, often saying something like:

Your wrong on the tall Yixing,that is a genuine piece..

Which comes across as rude to us, because you are saying I do not care what you say I am right, especially when you do not have the piece available to inspect in person, or post better quality photos.

[MarshalN]

Actually,I believe the thread was hijacked and taken a wrong turn.
This occurred from the very first reply to the post.
The original post relates to a tall Yixing pot,all the resst has been other peoples baggage.

Perhaps they should take a look inside themselves and question their motives for being do personal and vindictive.

I responded to your question about dating, and stated that this piece is very unlikely to be from the 18th century. You dismissed that assessment out of hand without having even seen the piece yourself. If you have such confidence in your own assessments, then you shouldn't come here to ask for other people's opinions.

Your assessment of the Jiang Rong piece shows, to those of us who have been collecting yixing, that you seem to know very little of the yixing market and the possibilities of fakes and imitations. That some of us, myself included, are native Chinese speakers who have access to much more information than you seem not to bother you in your assessment. Since that's the case, I suggest you go to some other antique collection forum and let a bunch of people who know nothing of yixing lead you down your chosen path.

I have said what I needed to say about the tall piece in my very first response, which you dismissed out of hand as wrong without having even seen the piece yourself. Given that to be the case, there's very little incentive for me to remain cordial and understanding when it's clear that you are not interested in other people's opinions while asking for it. Don't ask us to waste our time on your eBay adventures when you don't actually want to hear what we have to say.

[Jun]

My opinion lean towards those of the established forumers here regarding the Jiang Rong piece.

I have handled several imitations of Jiang Rong's teapots and all of them look better than the one in the pictures.

It is hard to express, but there is an undefinable smell to the genuine pot. Once you hold it, you will know it.

But like I said, I have not owned a genuine Jiang Rong and thus could not tell you the real smell. All I can say is that even the imitated Jiang Rong pots look better than that.

Still, take my comments as that of a newbie. My experience is limited.

[In search of truth]

I have returned from the States and now have the large teapot and have taken some pictures.

Jun,thank you for your post,I have a new camera and will take some additional pictures of the alleged Jiang Rong teapot and will re-open that thread and hopefully we can have some analysis of the piece on that thread.

I will also add a new pot to that thread which appears to be made by a nephew of hers Qian Jiansheng,who is still potting.

[In search of truth]

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h45 ... ies280.jpg

[In search of truth]

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h45 ... ies279.jpg

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h45 ... ies276.jpg

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h45 ... ies282.jpg

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h45 ... ies283.jpg

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h45 ... ies285.jpg

As I suspected,the buff clay is sprigged and applied to the surface of the body.