It's your choice on your own calculus. It's of course ok for you to take your own choice. It's many other people's choice to love calculus and find it everywhere in their lives.tingjunkie wrote:#1- F*ck all this calculus.
)Experience is important. But theorizing is not pointless to me and a lot of other people. You don't have to make a point out of it. But making a point out of testable theories is never a bad thing. Besides, whoever can't tell a difference that you can tell, I wouldn't tell him there is no hope for him. Everybody can see a lot of things that other people can't see, that doesn't justify one to tell others they are hopeless. In addition, sometimes one has to be blind to something in order to see something else. The one who "doesn't see it" may see a lot of things from the other sidetingjunkie wrote: #2- Get off this forum and go brew some tea! I truly don't mean any disrespect to anyone, but if you can't tell the difference between 7g of tea brewed for 20 seconds in a 100ml gaiwan and 30 seconds in a 150ml gaiwan you're either a rookie, or there's no hope for you. All this theorizing is completely pointless and these things need to be experienced.
This is how I think about it. I think about it as something that I'd need to formally work out as a calculus problem, because infusion rates won't be constant, and that's bringing in differentials at least.gingkoseto wrote: Imagine there is flavor A that has faster infusion rate, say, 10 flavor points coming out in every 10 seconds. There is a flavor B that has a slower infusion rate, say, 2 flavor points coming out in every 10 seconds. Now we assume the flavors come out at a constant rate no matter what the leaf water ratio is (not accurate assumption but I guess it's often close to the reality).
Then by gongfu-ing for 10 seconds, you get a good deal of A and little B. By large volume and long infusion, you get almost equal amount of A and B (assuming in long infusions, the leaf releases all of the A flavor and no more is coming out).
Then imagine A is a good flavor (fruity, floral, whatever), and B is a less preferred flavor (bitter, astringent...). Then you get a better deal with gongfu method. You will manage to extract as much A as possible, but only 1/5 amount of B. In this case you would prefer gongfu.
Sometimes when A and B have equal infusion rate, gongfu and non-gongfu may not make a big difference. An example is some black tea with chopped leaves.
When B is barely available, gongfu may not hold a big advantages, or may even have disadvantages. An example is early spring whole leaf/bud green tea.
Oh my goodness this is fun!
Haha, yes, that's exactly where I was headed...!gingkoseto wrote:Imagine there is flavor A that has faster infusion rate, say, 10 flavor points coming out in every 10 seconds. There is a flavor B that has a slower infusion rate, say, 2 flavor points coming out in every 10 seconds. Now we assume the flavors come out at a constant rate no matter what the leaf water ratio is (not accurate assumption but I guess it's often close to the reality).
Then by gongfu-ing for 10 seconds, you get a good deal of A and little B. By large volume and long infusion, you get almost equal amount of A and B (assuming in long infusions, the leaf releases all of the A flavor and no more is coming out).
Then imagine A is a good flavor (fruity, floral, whatever), and B is a less preferred flavor (bitter, astringent...). Then you get a better deal with gongfu method. You will manage to extract as much A as possible, but only 1/5 amount of B. In this case you would prefer gongfu.
Sometimes when A and B have equal infusion rate, gongfu and non-gongfu may not make a big difference. An example is some black tea with chopped leaves.
When B is barely available, gongfu may not hold a big advantages, or may even have disadvantages. An example is early spring whole leaf/bud green tea.
Oh my goodness this is fun!
The picture quickly gets complicated because of all the different flavor possibilities and what-not, but I think there are some generalizable rules, as you say.
I think it's fair to ask the question. If the reason someone's doing high-leaf low-water for pu'er is because "that's what everyone else is doing" fine, no harm in that. But as MarshalN points out, it's only very recently that people started doing it and one aspect of the process appears to be connected with the marketing techniques of a large company.why choose one method over the other?
Oh I don't mind your sarcasm, because I've known you through many of your good posts on the forum, not just by the sarcasm. But I don't think it's a safe assumption that people surrounding you would appreciate a sarcastic sense of humor. It always depends on how well they know you and their own roles in your sarcasm. In this aspect, people from all over the world are not that different.tingjunkie wrote:My apologies, I come from a part of the world where people have thicker skins and appreciate a sarcastic sense of humor.
That's very true! I kind of wanted to bypass differentials because I'm quite clumsy at itdebunix wrote: This is how I think about it. I think about it as something that I'd need to formally work out as a calculus problem, because infusion rates won't be constant, and that's bringing in differentials at least.
I also have a fascination with small things, and have acquired a few very small cups by potters whose larger works I could not afford, and those small cups work best with small pots/gaiwans.
Actually this overnight steeping thing could be done on both puerh and oolong, depending on the specific tea. Sometimes, it might be because the tea doesn't have a lot of bitterness to begin with (for example I do overnight steeping with Da Yu Ling, just to be stingy). Sometimes, it might be because some "good" type of bitterness or astringency tastes not bad at all in lower concentration. By gongfu brewing, the bitterness or astringency is released little by little in each infusion and may contributes to the sweet aftertaste. Then at the end, there isn't much bitterness left in the tea and the tea can go through overnight steeping without getting overly bitter. But sometimes, if a tea has the bad type of persisting bitterness, it may not go well with overnight steeping.yanom wrote: People sometimes make the final brew of a good pu'er by steeping it overnight and I've never got any bitter taste by doing that but I've not heard people doing the same with oolong: maybe that explains the difference I've found between brewing pu'ers and oolongs.
Tingjunkie. You are way beyond the systematic level. So that you know, learning to listen to the leave, water and vessel is just the beginning. Be patience and take it slow. It's a life time of practice ~ Ttingjunkie wrote:My apologies, I come from a part of the world where people have thicker skins and appreciate a sarcastic sense of humor. The point about theories and kindergarten math being useless in this discussion still stands however. Don't let me get in the way of your verbal adventure though, if that's what gets you going.
Yeah, I got in trouble for this when I moved out to New Mexico too. Many don't quite "get" sarcasm out there.gingkoseto wrote:Oh I don't mind your sarcasm, because I've known you through many of your good posts on the forum, not just by the sarcasm. But I don't think it's a safe assumption that people surrounding you would appreciate a sarcastic sense of humor. It always depends on how well they know you and their own roles in your sarcasm. In this aspect, people from all over the world are not that different.tingjunkie wrote:My apologies, I come from a part of the world where people have thicker skins and appreciate a sarcastic sense of humor.
In a screwed up way, I find most people who are careful not to offend to be far less genuine than those who step on a few toes. I'm perfectly willing to admit my way of communicating isn't the best one though! 