New Pot! Duan Ni or not?

[kyarazen]

I know that documentary from CCTV, it really swayed the Yixing market, the price of quality Yixing teapot arose X3 since that documentary. I even think, that documentary was encouraged by the goverment of Yixing.

Because that made people think, quality-Yixings are the only source where we can drink it a safer environment. That documentary was about dissing low-priced Yixings with untrustful sources.


So..what do you think? is it unreliable chemical ingredient or natural clays? if latter, then the danger of using should apply to ALL of claywares don't you think? (including Teachat artisans')

there were quite several CCTV and other documentaries that continue to fry yixing prices domestically, including interviews and all that of new "ming jias"

yixing pots had been sent for testing by the local health/regulatory authorities during import in the 90s, these pots were predominantly safe, suggesting purity and cleanliness of the mines used. most of these tested pots were factory pots as these pots were most popular in usage.

the ceramic industry is self regulating by the professionals that are in it. responsible makers, good ethics, excellent conduct, allows for the existence of safe tea ware. these people know exactly what glaze they use, what clay they use etc.

yixing is possibly a step more risky because of their unglazed nature of usage, plus the increasing existence of clay mimics or "fake yixing" clays, dubious pots, business mindedness, profit driven etc, new generation yixing pots without state controlled production is difficult to regulate, how would anyone be able to conclude the exact safety of what they are using without lab testing in future?

but of course if anyone could provide really trustful sources at reasonably prices to the rest of the world, then it would be great

[kyarazen]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

Yea, but it's 'natural'.

But those oxide powders being poisonous is quite obvious, especially chrome's. As researches show, eating them might cause to death..

no chemical differences... whether iron oxide is from "natural" clay or from another mine or source etc. what happens if you eat some natural yixing clay?

[chrl42]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

Yea, but it's 'natural'.

But those oxide powders being poisonous is quite obvious, especially chrome's. As researches show, eating them might cause to death..

no chemical differences... whether iron oxide is from "natural" clay or from another mine or source etc. what happens if you eat some natural yixing clay?

ok..I am out

peace.

[betta]

I know that documentary from CCTV, it really swayed the Yixing market, the price of quality Yixing teapot arose X3 since that documentary. I even think, that documentary was encouraged by the goverment of Yixing.

Because that made people think, quality-Yixings are the only source where we can drink it a safer environment. That documentary was about dissing low-priced Yixings with untrustful sources.


So..what do you think? is it unreliable chemical ingredient or natural clays? if latter, then the danger of using should apply to ALL of claywares don't you think? (including Teachat artisans')

there were quite several CCTV and other documentaries that continue to fry yixing prices domestically, including interviews and all that of new "ming jias"

yixing pots had been sent for testing by the local health/regulatory authorities during import in the 90s, these pots were predominantly safe, suggesting purity and cleanliness of the mines used. most of these tested pots were factory pots as these pots were most popular in usage.

the ceramic industry is self regulating by the professionals that are in it. responsible makers, good ethics, excellent conduct, allows for the existence of safe tea ware. these people know exactly what glaze they use, what clay they use etc.

yixing is possibly a step more risky because of their unglazed nature of usage, plus the increasing existence of clay mimics or "fake yixing" clays, dubious pots, business mindedness, profit driven etc, new generation yixing pots without state controlled production is difficult to regulate, how would anyone be able to conclude the exact safety of what they are using without lab testing in future?

but of course if anyone could provide really trustful sources at reasonably prices to the rest of the world, then it would be great

I think no one can guarantee that their clay is safe. The clay from one location can have 100 times higher heavy metal content than other within the same mine. There is no such as uniform clay or rock formation.
As far as I know all earthenware such as clay, stoneware, etc have a high heavy metal content in their nature form. People are complaining about lead in household items, but they don't know that the earth where they plant their vegetable has 5x lead content beyond limit. The same also for vanadium, boron, iron. Beside the amount, the toxicity of these metals depends also on their form. Industrial example like antimony is very toxic in a certain form, but much harmless in another oxidized form. Normally metal that is at highest oxidation state is less harmful, firing with excess oxygen at high temperature does induce this oxidation.

[VanFersen]

In fact it all comes to the point that we need to put a little faith in others and our own luck like always in life. If we would really think about it what the industry put in our food or generally said what poisonous stuff is in everything we use, drink or eat then I am sure we wouldn't be able to use more than 80% of the stuff anymore.

[bagua7]

Nothing will happen it you ingest clay. It is actually good for you! Don't Taoists ingest alchemical pills made of cinnabar (mercury) and other metals to further purify their internal organs? It is a very risky practice though as many practitioners died in the process.

[betta]

Nothing will happen it you ingest clay. It is actually good for you! Don't Taoists ingest alchemical pills made of cinnabar (mercury) and other metals to further purify their internal organs? It is a very risky practice though as many practitioners died in the process.

Interesting! It's a matter of concentration and type.

Indeed we can learn from the Qin Shi Huang, the first chinese emperor, who ingested large amount of mercury and it drove him to his final fate.
I think he could live longer if he hadn't done that.

The symptom of heavy metal poisoning can occur immediately, like that in Minamata tragedy, but more often in the later years after the ingestion.
Most of the coal miners at the beginning of 20th century died of strange, unknown deseases after they retired. They were exposed to heavy metal through skin contact and inhalation during the mining activity in their early days.

Whether one blends a bit healthy portion of skepticsm or believes others fully in their daily decision is up to each individual.

[entropyembrace]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

Your body requires 3/4 of those minerals in order to live.

for example Cobalt is part of Vitamin B12 required for your nervous system to function. Iron is used to carry oxygen to your tissue, the reason why your blood is red is because of oxidized iron that your hemoglobin is made with. Manganese is used in a huge number of enzymes including manganese superoxide dismutase which protects your body from oxidative damage. Your body uses all of these in oxidized forms.

There's no biological role identified for chromium, but you routinely use utensils coated with chromium oxide, that's what makes stainless steel stainless.

That said when handling large quantities of purified metal oxides they can be dangerous especially if inhaled. Like many other things you need a little bit to live, but too much can kill you. This is more of a hazard for potters who are working with pure metal oxide dust than the end user of the pottery. There's more important things to worry about than how the clay your teapot is made out of was mixed...

Besides that every single clay on earth is a mix of metal oxides That's what 100% natural clays dug out of the Earth are.

[ABx]

To the OP: that sounds like low blood sugar to me. Tea can have an effect on your blood sugar, and what you describe happens to me if I drink a lot of tea (or certain teas) after not eating for too long.

And no, eating clay is not a good idea -- especially clay that's made for making pottery. A lot of clay has some really nasty stuff in it, but when you fire it at upwards of 2000 degrees you're turning it part way to glass. Glazes are even worse -- some of those are extremely toxic, but fine after being fired.

[MarshalN]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

Your body requires 3/4 of those minerals in order to live.

for example Cobalt is part of Vitamin B12 required for your nervous system to function. Iron is used to carry oxygen to your tissue, the reason why your blood is red is because of oxidized iron that your hemoglobin is made with. Manganese is used in a huge number of enzymes including manganese superoxide dismutase which protects your body from oxidative damage. Your body uses all of these in oxidized forms.

There's no biological role identified for chromium, but you routinely use utensils coated with chromium oxide, that's what makes stainless steel stainless.

That said when handling large quantities of purified metal oxides they can be dangerous especially if inhaled. Like many other things you need a little bit to live, but too much can kill you. This is more of a hazard for potters who are working with pure metal oxide dust than the end user of the pottery. There's more important things to worry about than how the clay your teapot is made out of was mixed...

Besides that every single clay on earth is a mix of metal oxides That's what 100% natural clays dug out of the Earth are.

Amen.

As I saw recently it's a good reminder too - chlorine will kill you, but sodium chloride is absolutely safe. People forget that compounds behave differently from pure elements.

[MarshalN]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

Still poisonous

then... zhuni should be poisonous by this definition....

since its natural iron oxide content is quite high

Yea, but it's 'natural'.

But those oxide powders being poisonous is quite obvious, especially chrome's. As researches show, eating them might cause to death..

Iron oxide does not equal to iron oxide? You need to take chemistry lessons.

[chrl42]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

Still poisonous

then... zhuni should be poisonous by this definition....

since its natural iron oxide content is quite high

Yea, but it's 'natural'.

But those oxide powders being poisonous is quite obvious, especially chrome's. As researches show, eating them might cause to death..

Iron oxide does not equal to iron oxide? You need to take chemistry lessons.

Early days on this forum, I was one of those who insisted on the safety of oxide powers as those teapots are being used without a warning in China.

Then a member of TeaArtisans came with a data that wrote how those powders are full of hazardous materials enough to be inappropriate for using.

Now I took the manner of him, followed him because I am not having an official data with me, then another one pops out opposing.


For me, I don't even care. I don't own or use those adulterated teapots for
asthetic reasons before safety, thank you.

[MarshalN]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

Still poisonous

then... zhuni should be poisonous by this definition....

since its natural iron oxide content is quite high

Yea, but it's 'natural'.

But those oxide powders being poisonous is quite obvious, especially chrome's. As researches show, eating them might cause to death..

Iron oxide does not equal to iron oxide? You need to take chemistry lessons.

Early days on this forum, I was one of those who insisted on the safety of oxide powers as those teapots are being used without a warning in China.

Then a member of TeaArtisans came with a data that wrote how those powders are full of hazardous materials enough to be inappropriate for using.

Now I took the manner of him, followed him because I am not having an official data with me, then another one pops out opposing.


For me, I don't even care. I don't own or use those adulterated teapots for
asthetic reasons before safety, thank you.

Then the problem is not the iron oxide, it's what else is in the iron oxide powder. Salt isn't poisonous until my batch has cyanide mixed in it

[bagua7]

Wouldn't a firing temp. of >1000°C be enough to neutralise those nasties?

I'd like to hear what a potter or someone working in the field of ceramics or industrial chemistry has to say about this? Maybe you are one...so?

[betta]

Like many other things you need a little bit to live, but too much can kill you.

I think the readers here need to get a feeling of how much exactly " a little bit" you meant here. Are we talking about gram, milligram, parts per million?
Perhaps you can elaborate more so they get the right picture.