Your method of brewing oolong

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Oct 4th, '14, 16:16
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by drinking_teas » Oct 4th, '14, 16:16

ABx wrote: Generally speaking, the only wulong that I don't try to keep the temp as high as possible is dancong. Rolled teas in particular do well with high temps and a fast pour.
I can't really find my preference for boiling vs. not boiling for Dancong. Sometimes I'll get a great session with boiling water, and sometimes I'll just get a one-dimensional bitter flavor.
ABx wrote: Don't forget that leaf needs to acclimate after shipping. Even moreso if it came in a vacuum pack. Put the leaf into a tin/jar, and you'll notice that somewhere around the third or fourth time you use it, it will really open up.

Even if it's not vacuum packed, it will still need to acclimate, though (vacuum packed teas are just affected more, although some of the most affected I've had weren't vacuum packed). I usually pour the leaf into a tin, then open and shake (to exchange the air) every day or two, but even then some may take a while longer. Until then you'll get off flavors, bitterness, thin, and just generally very unbalanced.

Even after acclimating, you'll want to set the leaf out to breathe for a couple of days before using. The results can be somewhat dramatic for some teas (especially with any roast, which itself can take some months or years to settle down).

Of course there's also the possibility that you've just got a crappy tea, and/or just need more experience brewing. It's even possible that you just need a harder or softer water.

My technique is fine, as is my water (in the past I used NYC-area tap water, which is good quality and now I use brita-filtered water).

I'll use your technique for acclimation when I open up a new bag (either Origin Tea Alishan or a competition Alishan). I've been using bag-sealing pins to close the bags after opening them, so I guess I need to rethink that. I think I'll use a Ball jar (obviously kept out of light), as all of my tins are in use at the moment. I don't have any roasted oolongs that are younger than Winter 2013 except for a very light-roasted one (which is already delicious), so my problem is only with green oolongs.

Thank you for the advice!

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Oct 4th, '14, 18:43
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by ABx » Oct 4th, '14, 18:43

drinking_teas wrote: I can't really find my preference for boiling vs. not boiling for Dancong. Sometimes I'll get a great session with boiling water, and sometimes I'll just get a one-dimensional bitter flavor.
Dancong is tricky, and takes a lot of practice. But also keep in mind that there are different kinds of bitter, and some of them can be good once you get there.
My technique is fine, as is my water (in the past I used NYC-area tap water, which is good quality and now I use brita-filtered water).
Different kinds of tea do better with different mineral content. Doing a quick search, it looks like NY has very hard water, which isn't going to be great for gaoshan; it could very well be what's responsible for the characteristics you describe. It may be good for dancong, though.
I'll use your technique for acclimation when I open up a new bag (either Origin Tea Alishan or a competition Alishan). I've been using bag-sealing pins to close the bags after opening them, so I guess I need to rethink that. I think I'll use a Ball jar (obviously kept out of light), as all of my tins are in use at the moment. I don't have any roasted oolongs that are younger than Winter 2013 except for a very light-roasted one (which is already delicious), so my problem is only with green oolongs.
Just remember that you still want to set the leaf out to breathe for a day or two before using, even after it's acclimated.

Roasted teas really need 48 hrs, but more fragrant teas can start to fade a little in that time (depending on the tea), so 24-36 is generally okay. Keep in mind, though, that even the very green ones are roasted a little, and the roast can and will change the tea over the course of the first year (maybe longer for high-fire). If you don't already do it, you might do some experimenting (do a side-by-side with some that's been set out vs what's in the tin).

There are also some teas that are nearly impossible to get acclimated before the first or second brew.

And yeah, I don't like those bags (although OT's were better than most). I've had too many get small tears that I didn't realize were there until it was too late. You can put the bag inside a tin, but pouring the tea into the tin is a good way to make sure that all of the air is exchanged. I know that bags can be good for keeping out the most air, but I just don't trust myself with them.

Oct 4th, '14, 19:29
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by drinking_teas » Oct 4th, '14, 19:29

ABx wrote: Dancong is tricky, and takes a lot of practice. But also keep in mind that there are different kinds of bitter, and some of them can be good once you get there.
I totally agree about the good bitter vs. bad bitter, and I'm talking about bad bitter. I haven't had any in a while, but my favorite is Jing's Mi Lan, nice refined bitterness and a nice, deep sweetness.
Different kinds of tea do better with different mineral content. Doing a quick search, it looks like NY has very hard water, which isn't going to be great for gaoshan; it could very well be what's responsible for the characteristics you describe. It may be good for dancong, though.
Our water seems very soft around here, none of my appliances ever calcified.
Just remember that you still want to set the leaf out to breathe for a day or two before using, even after it's acclimated.

Roasted teas really need 48 hrs, but more fragrant teas can start to fade a little in that time (depending on the tea), so 24-36 is generally okay. Keep in mind, though, that even the very green ones are roasted a little, and the roast can and will change the tea over the course of the first year (maybe longer for high-fire). If you don't already do it, you might do some experimenting (do a side-by-side with some that's been set out vs what's in the tin).

There are also some teas that are nearly impossible to get acclimated before the first or second brew.

And yeah, I don't like those bags (although OT's were better than most). I've had too many get small tears that I didn't realize were there until it was too late. You can put the bag inside a tin, but pouring the tea into the tin is a good way to make sure that all of the air is exchanged. I know that bags can be good for keeping out the most air, but I just don't trust myself with them.
I'll do some experimenting on the competition Alishan, since I have a lot of that. I'll follow your instructions with the OT Alishan, as I've already tried that before. Just leave it out in the open for about 24hrs?

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Oct 4th, '14, 22:54
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by kyarazen » Oct 4th, '14, 22:54

ABx wrote: If that was true, then brewing in yixing would ruin the tea.

And yes, too much leaf can make it bitter, unbalanced, kill hui gan, etc.; the leaf should be able to open fully, and preferably at the same time (the latter being why you don't just pour water in in one spot).

Generally speaking, the only wulong that I don't try to keep the temp as high as possible is dancong. Rolled teas in particular do well with high temps and a fast pour.
its true. the system starts cooling upon hot water addition, and depending on the shape and material/wall thickness of the pot the temperature maintenance is different.

for the leaf to fully open, its related to pot shape and the method of leaf placement in the pot. dancong can set up as a "cha-dan" just like other yanchas. its not only the amount of leaf but the way/method of brewing that determines how the tea would taste based on the profile you want to present. i had done dancong (hojo's laocong) at a ratio of 1.1-1.2g/10ml

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Oct 4th, '14, 23:33
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by kyarazen » Oct 4th, '14, 23:33

example of thermal properties of some pots

Image

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Oct 4th, '14, 23:39
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by chrl42 » Oct 4th, '14, 23:39

ABx wrote:
kyarazen wrote:once water goes into the pot.. the system starts cooling off from there, a fast cooling system.. the tea rounds up quite nicely. if the system maintains heat for very long, with longer steeps the leaves are "cooked".

spring harvest teas can have more vegetal notes than autumn harvest ones, both respond to intense heat differently due to their lignin content.
If that was true, then brewing in yixing would ruin the tea.

And yes, too much leaf can make it bitter, unbalanced, kill hui gan, etc.; the leaf should be able to open fully, and preferably at the same time (the latter being why you don't just pour water in in one spot).

Generally speaking, the only wulong that I don't try to keep the temp as high as possible is dancong. Rolled teas in particular do well with high temps and a fast pour.
I think it depends on types of Oolong. While I agree with you on Gaoshan, 'full place' lessens the number of brewing for Fujian Oolongs.

Because Gongfu brewing is pretty much focused on maintaining aroma, people often used very small pot, cup, much leaf, fast pouring etc

Typical size for Gongfu Shui Ping was 50~150cc..how will that be enough for leaves to open fully?


BTW, Ye Han-zhong also said, 'middle hot' boiling water is suitable for DC, his brewing technique is quite interesting,

Once you normally follow the Gongfu procedure, then you dip the pot in cool water before pouring..quite scary if one uses an antique Zhuni :)

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Oct 4th, '14, 23:45
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by chrl42 » Oct 4th, '14, 23:45

kyarazen wrote:example of thermal properties of some pots

Image
Pretty interesting, I guess low thermal property for Shui Ping teapots is due to their small size? :)


From what I know, rules of thermal property goes,

Huge, Zini, thick wall = high

Small, Zhuni, thin wall = low

So they had to rinse them with hot water time to time, to keep the temperature going down in Chaozhou :)

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Oct 4th, '14, 23:51
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by Tead Off » Oct 4th, '14, 23:51

Is gongfu brewing conducive to the leaf opening fully? I don't think so. Packing a pot never allows the leaf to open fully. Is gongfu brewing only about the aroma? I don't think so.

For me, a good tea is going to give you some wonderful moments almost any way you brew it, within reason, of course. Over-thinking drinking tea doesn't make it taste better. Complications never lead to good results.

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Oct 5th, '14, 10:53
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by kyarazen » Oct 5th, '14, 10:53

the sizes tested are 4 cup.
if much bigger the temperature can be more sustained. just received a 褔记 gao tang po, 9 cup size which i'll be testing soon..

i have tested over a couple of hundred pots to date and so far i would roughly generalize that hong-ni and zini of the same size,wall thickness, shape, the hong ni has a slightly hotter beginning, which is extremely useful in heightening the aroma by pushing out the volatiles.

but that doesnt mean it would be impossible to do so with the zini.. just need to douse it with a bit more hot water on the outside of the pot when brewing to help delay the thermal decline.

taste wise, i like how zi-ni can be rather rounding and improving the mineral note in yancha, hong ni's always a delight with high quality and aged yancha. no hard and fast rule, just playing around to seek what i like and enjoy.



chrl42 wrote: Pretty interesting, I guess low thermal property for Shui Ping teapots is due to their small size? :)


From what I know, rules of thermal property goes,

Huge, Zini, thick wall = high

Small, Zhuni, thin wall = low

So they had to rinse them with hot water time to time, to keep the temperature going down in Chaozhou :)

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Oct 5th, '14, 11:35
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by kyarazen » Oct 5th, '14, 11:35

there are different types of brewing, but if "gongfu" was to be used in the description it could be something very "chao zhou". shao an style, anxi style are sometimes thought to be classified under "gongfu brewing" but they have different outcomes and desires, and had different origins as well. in modern day, excerpts of the various styles are now fused together, together with new interpretations of lu yu's cha jing, the "gongfu" tea ceremony is a mish-mash of ritualized steps in brewing tea.

but just for discussion sake, these are the knowledges that i had seeked out from various tea drinkers whom had been doing so for decades (its my agenda one day that I'll be able to pass on these information in the english format) :

from chaozhou food, one can consider the chao-zhou palate to be the most finicky and most picky. no compromise on good aromatics, good taste, good experience. the origins of the chao zhou brewing style is as early as that of the existence of publicly available zhu-sha/zhuni pots, either yixing or their traditional wheel spun types for the common folk to use. that would take it to somewhere around early qing, and not as early as lu yu as many would reference it against. nevertheless still open for discussion.

chao zhou brewing style became a "gongfu" when the peasantry developed steps to brew magically delicious brews from very lousy/low grade tea. low grade tea centuries ago probably had poor aroma, bad astringencies, so the brewing was limited to 3 steeps, beyond that, no aroma or little was left, and too much unhealthy compounds would leach out in the later steeps.

this was achieved by setting up a tea-gall or a 茶胆 in the middle of the pot, and getting the tea leaves to behave as a "system" in unison, than each leaf for themselves. with water at its "open" point, or 开水, which is different from hot water (热 or 烧), doused into the pot carefully, quick steeps, rocking the pot a few times to push the aroma into the brew, and dispensing before the bitter/astringencies came out. the shuiping hu was the perfect shape for this purpose, and a perfect shape for the cha-dan. i believe ye han zhong meant middle "open" water, which is still boiling, but not crazy bubbling.

as tea quality became better and better, and as some groups of consumers became more and more discerning, then it became a move towards fast eluting, flatter shaped pots, with intensely hot 开水as usual, aiming to squeeze into each brew superb aromatics, superb body, and lingering rich after taste. it can be fun to explore this. the cha-dan is "flatter" due to the flatter pot, and since yancha, dancong expands sideways more than upwards a wider pot benefits.

i had done experiments (unpublished though!), that one can always continue to load the tea pot. but once the threshold is exceeded, too much leaf, and inability for the leaf to unroll or expand sufficiently, the brew suffers, it becomes a little too "frontal/front heavy" off balanced, thin in body and "韵" although one can go for many many more steeps. if too little leaf, one steeps longer and the profile changes as well.


a hokkien/fujian variation of the chaozhou gongfu tea brewing is the shao-an style, it was created by the folks in fujian, anxi, used for brewing mostly heavier oxidation, heavier roasted teas. what they do is a half tea-gall as per chaozhou style but instead of a round ball in the pot, they have a round hump. the aim here is also to have a balanced tasting steep from the brewing method.

and with the creation and popularity of tie kuan yin since mid 1800s or slightly earlier, an "anxi" brewing style was developed, using taller pots since tie kuan yin opens and pushes upwards and outwards, after the leaves are rinsed, the emptied pot (still hot) is wrapped with a towel and shaken up and down a few times before hot water is added in to steep. after the first steep, the pot can be shaken again. the mechanical actions help to unfurl the rolled tea even more and allow one to be able to get enough aromatics, enough body and enough "观音韵" into each steep.

there after came the taiwanese brewing methods i.e. dongding style etc and many more, all aimed at bringing out the "best" in each respective teas.

not too sure if i would use a qing or early ROC pot for brewing though.. i'm pretty comfortable with 60-70s at the moment. antique pots have receded 火气, i have a couple of pieces that are finding themselves on the shelf all the time, since its pretty well known that anything subjected to repeated expanding and contraction will one day break down and fragment. pottery, ceramic cracking just requires one little fissure/weakness, just like glass, a tiny crack to initiate a large one.




chrl42 wrote: I think it depends on types of Oolong. While I agree with you on Gaoshan, 'full place' lessens the number of brewing for Fujian Oolongs.

Because Gongfu brewing is pretty much focused on maintaining aroma, people often used very small pot, cup, much leaf, fast pouring etc

Typical size for Gongfu Shui Ping was 50~150cc..how will that be enough for leaves to open fully?


BTW, Ye Han-zhong also said, 'middle hot' boiling water is suitable for DC, his brewing technique is quite interesting,

Once you normally follow the Gongfu procedure, then you dip the pot in cool water before pouring..quite scary if one uses an antique Zhuni :)

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Oct 5th, '14, 19:21
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by chrl42 » Oct 5th, '14, 19:21

kyarazen wrote:there are different types of brewing, but if "gongfu" was to be used in the description it could be something very "chao zhou". shao an style, anxi style are sometimes thought to be classified under "gongfu brewing" but they have different outcomes and desires, and had different origins as well. in modern day, excerpts of the various styles are now fused together, together with new interpretations of lu yu's cha jing, the "gongfu" tea ceremony is a mish-mash of ritualized steps in brewing tea.

...
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Nov 1st, '14, 20:05
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by ABx » Nov 1st, '14, 20:05

drinking_teas wrote:I'll do some experimenting on the competition Alishan, since I have a lot of that. I'll follow your instructions with the OT Alishan, as I've already tried that before. Just leave it out in the open for about 24hrs?
If it's mid roast or higher, then I'd go 48 hours. You might want less (like 24 hrs) if it's really green, but you should experiment. A lot of times I've found that 24 hrs doesn't change much, but closer to 48 hours made a much bigger difference.

And yup; I typically use a wide cup or a cha he -- the more surface area the better. Just put the leaf you're going to use in one and leave it out. You could put a paper towel over it, or something, if you're afraid that dust might get in it (obviously you don't want to spray cleaners anywhere near it), but it's not usually a problem.

Don't get discouraged if you don't get results right away or with just one tea (especially the first steep or two out of the mail). It takes more than 48 hrs for a tea to go stale, so you're not going to ruin it regardless, but when you start doing this regularly you'll find that you have a lot more of those "good tea days."

Nov 10th, '14, 17:14
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by drinking_teas » Nov 10th, '14, 17:14

ABx wrote:
kyarazen wrote:once water goes into the pot.. the system starts cooling off from there, a fast cooling system.. the tea rounds up quite nicely. if the system maintains heat for very long, with longer steeps the leaves are "cooked".

spring harvest teas can have more vegetal notes than autumn harvest ones, both respond to intense heat differently due to their lignin content.
If that was true, then brewing in yixing would ruin the tea.

And yes, too much leaf can make it bitter, unbalanced, kill hui gan, etc.; the leaf should be able to open fully, and preferably at the same time (the latter being why you don't just pour water in in one spot).

Generally speaking, the only wulong that I don't try to keep the temp as high as possible is dancong. Rolled teas in particular do well with high temps and a fast pour.
I've noticed that off-boiling water doesn't bring out the more (imo weird/unpleasant) vegetal flavors that seem to show up in some oolongs.
Don't forget that leaf needs to acclimate after shipping. Even moreso if it came in a vacuum pack. Put the leaf into a tin/jar, and you'll notice that somewhere around the third or fourth time you use it, it will really open up.

Even if it's not vacuum packed, it will still need to acclimate, though (vacuum packed teas are just affected more, although some of the most affected I've had weren't vacuum packed). I usually pour the leaf into a tin, then open and shake (to exchange the air) every day or two, but even then some may take a while longer. Until then you'll get off flavors, bitterness, thin, and just generally very unbalanced.

Even after acclimating, you'll want to set the leaf out to breathe for a couple of days before using. The results can be somewhat dramatic for some teas (especially with any roast, which itself can take some months or years to settle down).

Of course there's also the possibility that you've just got a crappy tea, and/or just need more experience brewing. It's even possible that you just need a harder or softer water.

Just opened my bag of Origin Tea Alishan today. Giving it a try now to give myself a benchmark. It's quite thin, not bad, but thin. Going to acclimate it over the next few days and report back.

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Nov 10th, '14, 23:00
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by Tead Off » Nov 10th, '14, 23:00

drinking_teas wrote: Just opened my bag of Origin Tea Alishan today. Giving it a try now to give myself a benchmark. It's quite thin, not bad, but thin. Going to acclimate it over the next few days and report back.
Thinness can either be a sign of tea deficiency or the wrong teapot used for brewing. Experiment and see if there is a change in the body.

Nov 10th, '14, 23:54
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Re: Your method of brewing oolong

by drinking_teas » Nov 10th, '14, 23:54

Tead Off wrote:
drinking_teas wrote: Just opened my bag of Origin Tea Alishan today. Giving it a try now to give myself a benchmark. It's quite thin, not bad, but thin. Going to acclimate it over the next few days and report back.
Thinness can either be a sign of tea deficiency or the wrong teapot used for brewing. Experiment and see if there is a change in the body.
Using a gaiwan, this tea was fine when I opened my first bag in June.

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