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Aug 13th, '15, 07:08
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Re: Not fully filling an yixing with water

by jayinhk » Aug 13th, '15, 07:08

I'm going to have to try this!

Aug 13th, '15, 15:32
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Re: Not fully filling an yixing with water

by impromptuandy » Aug 13th, '15, 15:32

yanom wrote:It's interesting that people seem to feel this would be fine for puer but not for wulong. I agree. I guess it's because the 'gong fu' style of tea used to be only for wulong? And puer wasn't normally drunk the same way? Puer seems to be a lot more forgiving than wulong.
My experience has been the reverse -- oolongs are more forgiving than puerh. :D Young-ish puerh, anyway. But when I'm drinking an oolong it's usually yancha. When yancha goes wrong (oversteeped or too many leaves), it can give a strong sour note, which you can correct for in the next steep. But when puerh goes wrong it can be unpalatably bitter, and it takes several more steeps for the bitterness to fade. Depends on the particular tea too, of course, but that's been my general experience.

Hmm, you said aged puerh. I'm with you there. Though I think aged teas generally are going to be more forgiving to brew.

As for gongfu -- I know kyarazen posted several articles some time ago on his blog on different brewing methods. They all resemble what's usually called gongfu here on Teachat, but with important differences between them (and only one is called gongfu). Interesting reading...

Personally, I call my brewing method, "I Know It Looks Like I'm Being Mindful, But Really I'm Just Trying Not To Drop Anything."

Aug 13th, '15, 16:56
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Re: Not fully filling an yixing with water

by ethan » Aug 13th, '15, 16:56

thanks for the humor, impromptu andy. Humor was overdue here.

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Aug 14th, '15, 07:02
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Re: Not fully filling an yixing with water

by Psyck » Aug 14th, '15, 07:02

One of the problems with filling only 3/4th water would be in getting the amount of leaf right. Let us say you would normally have brewed in a full 150ml pot with 10gm of leaves & instead choose to brew in a 150ml pot filled with 105ml of water & 7 gm of leaves.

Can you be sure that the leaves will not expand into the empty air? It is quite likely that puerh, especially ripe, would be more forgiving in this regard as it does not expand as much as oolong would.

In general, it is going to be a big pain getting the amount of water & leaf exactly right each time if not filling it fully, so I don't expect it to be an ideal method for a regular basis - though I see nothing wrong with it occasionally if required.

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Aug 14th, '15, 13:42
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Re: Not fully filling an yixing with water

by kyarazen » Aug 14th, '15, 13:42

impromptuandy wrote: As for gongfu -- I know kyarazen posted several articles some time ago on his blog on different brewing methods. They all resemble what's usually called gongfu here on Teachat, but with important differences between them (and only one is called gongfu). Interesting reading...

thanks for the kind reference. i thought it would also be helpful to clarify that my writings/posts there were not meant to be targetted at orthodoxy, but just to present the traditional/historical styles.

but all in all if one has read through the methods and understood the way of the "elders", and combine it with the yixing articles then it can be quickly summarized to several parameters that one can play with to his or her own preference/style freely.

just a few points that i hope readers would have figured out

1) Water is too hot for too long a duration- cooks delicate teas and lose fine notes, too much bitterness drawn out

solution :
a) find a pot that cool fast, this can be achieved by smaller pot volume i.e. 60ml, or by flatter pot shapes.
b) dispense earlier (can choose to have more leaf to compensate for shorter steeps)

2) Aromatics are weak, brew is thin

solution
a) use more leaf (at risk of more bitterness)
b) use much hotter water, at above 95 degrees water is really nice and energetic, ready to liberate fragrances from leaves, but if too long at this temp the leaves can become cooked.
c) if leaves are not very well unrolled, can choose to have longer steep for first steep. or adapt yixing/tw style, i.e. rinse the leaves and leave the pot empty, the residual steam to awaken the tea (for a minute) before steeping
d) shake the teapot after having dispensed tea, the leaf agitation/motions can help release more flavour the next round hot water is added

3) Bitter astringencies
solution
a) if unrolled tea like dancong, can consider brewing in a shibo or a wide/flat vessel that cools faster
b) control the swelling of the leaves and restrict it by pot shape, so that you can have your desired after taste
c) dispense before bitter astringency gets into the brew (to compensate for shorter steeps, can use more leaves, or in CZ GF style, shake/agitate so that aromatics and tea juices on leaf surface will come into solution faster than the leaf compounds that have to dissolve out from within the leaf)
d) use less leaf!

no rocket sciences at all.

so with the use of a huge yixing pot, i.e. 500ml size, it is not possible to restrict tea leaf swelling, so you have not much control on the bitter astringencies. to compensate, you can use lesser leaf, and choose those that can survive high temperatures (not those fine lishans or dayulings), rolled oolongs, roasted (roasted teas are sweeter), and teas that need more space to unfurl.

if the steep is abit too strong, not having filled the pot fully with water allows you to top up with more hot water and then quickly decide when to dispense the "dilutions" to get the preferred taste.

if you brew concentrated tea extract in gongfu style, it can be fun to try diluting it with water, and you may find that around 1:6 or 1:7 dilution the astringent bitter brew actually starts to taste sweet.

Aug 14th, '15, 14:45
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Re: Not fully filling an yixing with water

by steanze » Aug 14th, '15, 14:45

Yes, those articles by Kyarazen are great. A couple more variants I use:
kyarazen wrote:
impromptuandy wrote: As for gongfu -- I know kyarazen posted several articles some time ago on his blog on different brewing methods. They all resemble what's usually called gongfu here on Teachat, but with important differences between them (and only one is called gongfu). Interesting reading...

thanks for the kind reference. i thought it would also be helpful to clarify that my writings/posts there were not meant to be targetted at orthodoxy, but just to present the traditional/historical styles.

but all in all if one has read through the methods and understood the way of the "elders", and combine it with the yixing articles then it can be quickly summarized to several parameters that one can play with to his or her own preference/style freely.

just a few points that i hope readers would have figured out

1) Water is too hot for too long a duration- cooks delicate teas and lose fine notes, too much bitterness drawn out

solution :
a) find a pot that cool fast, this can be achieved by smaller pot volume i.e. 60ml, or by flatter pot shapes.
b) dispense earlier (can choose to have more leaf to compensate for shorter steeps)
c) pour water from greater height, so that it cools on the way

kyarazen wrote: 2) Aromatics are weak, brew is thin

solution
a) use more leaf (at risk of more bitterness)
a.2) can use a more porous pot (e.g. zini or qingshuini) to reduce the bitterness when using more leaf.
kyarazen wrote: b) use much hotter water, at above 95 degrees water is really nice and energetic, ready to liberate fragrances from leaves, but if too long at this temp the leaves can become cooked.
c) if leaves are not very well unrolled, can choose to have longer steep for first steep. or adapt yixing/tw style, i.e. rinse the leaves and leave the pot empty, the residual steam to awaken the tea (for a minute) before steeping
d) shake the teapot after having dispensed tea, the leaf agitation/motions can help release more flavour the next round hot water is added
e) Pour water from lower height in a thicker stream so that it does not cool down on the way.
kyarazen wrote: 3) Bitter astringencies
solution
a) if unrolled tea like dancong, can consider brewing in a shibo or a wide/flat vessel that cools faster
b) control the swelling of the leaves and restrict it by pot shape, so that you can have your desired after taste
c) dispense before bitter astringency gets into the brew (to compensate for shorter steeps, can use more leaves, or in CZ GF style, shake/agitate so that aromatics and tea juices on leaf surface will come into solution faster than the leaf compounds that have to dissolve out from within the leaf)
d) use less leaf!
e) use a more porous pot (e.g. zini or qingshuini)
f) buy better tea
g) if puerh, wait a decade or so :D

Aug 15th, '15, 08:27
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Re: Not fully filling an yixing with water

by yanom » Aug 15th, '15, 08:27

Psyck wrote:One of the problems with filling only 3/4th water would be in getting the amount of leaf right. Let us say you would normally have brewed in a full 150ml pot with 10gm of leaves & instead choose to brew in a 150ml pot filled with 105ml of water & 7 gm of leaves.
I agree this would be a problem for wulong tea. But as you say, not really for puer. Or at least, not the way I like puer, which involves slightly fewer leaves than most people here tend to use.

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