Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
Interesting that the microbes in question are still a mystery. I guess I'll go ahead and experiment with the humidity levels and maybe add another sheng pu'er cake and see what happens. Cheers!
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
I am also curious what effect all the traveling to get to North America has on the tea on killing off biodiversity.
As I think about it, would the aging in a different region likely allow the local flora and fauna to overtake and impart its own flavor?
As I think about it, would the aging in a different region likely allow the local flora and fauna to overtake and impart its own flavor?
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
Thanks ee!
I think you highlighted two important issues: we don't know the importance of the microbe diversity, and we don't know how the different microbes contribute to the aging of the tea.
But it's also good to know that a dry environment won't kill off everything (that makes sense, but it's good to have confirmation).
From my quick reading on the process of composting (which is similar to what happens in shu production), they seemed to mention thermophilic bacteria -- that is, bacteria that go active under the elevated temperatures of the composting pile. I imagine those bacteria don't come into play during the normal sheng aging process.
I think you highlighted two important issues: we don't know the importance of the microbe diversity, and we don't know how the different microbes contribute to the aging of the tea.
But it's also good to know that a dry environment won't kill off everything (that makes sense, but it's good to have confirmation).
From my quick reading on the process of composting (which is similar to what happens in shu production), they seemed to mention thermophilic bacteria -- that is, bacteria that go active under the elevated temperatures of the composting pile. I imagine those bacteria don't come into play during the normal sheng aging process.
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
Ack what happened to Teachat? I'm reading purple text on purple background. Kinda hard for old bifocal eyes here.
One of the reasons I started doing crock storage was because of what happened to my teas using the cardboard box method. I put several teas into boxes with a bowl of water in 2009 and by 2013 I had tea that tasted like cardboard box. In addition, the tea was too dry and lost a lot if not most of its original flavor. I realized porous storage will not work when the air is 24% humidity in winter.
One of the reasons I started doing crock storage was because of what happened to my teas using the cardboard box method. I put several teas into boxes with a bowl of water in 2009 and by 2013 I had tea that tasted like cardboard box. In addition, the tea was too dry and lost a lot if not most of its original flavor. I realized porous storage will not work when the air is 24% humidity in winter.
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
@CWYN
I am trying your method right now, any only have <6 months experience but I can only realistically keep my tea in crock storage at 50-60% relative humidity in crock storage during the winter time in a dark closet with a humidifier near by.
Is that too low? I usually go off of smell: "if it smells good and alive, everything is ok."
I am trying your method right now, any only have <6 months experience but I can only realistically keep my tea in crock storage at 50-60% relative humidity in crock storage during the winter time in a dark closet with a humidifier near by.
Is that too low? I usually go off of smell: "if it smells good and alive, everything is ok."
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
[quote]Cwyn » Mar 19th 16 5:56 am
Ack what happened to Teachat? I'm reading purple text on purple background. Kinda hard for old bifocal eyes here.
One of the reasons I started doing crock storage was because of what happened to my teas using the cardboard box method. I put several teas into boxes with a bowl of water in 2009 and by 2013 I had tea that tasted like cardboard box. In addition, the tea was too dry and lost a lot if not most of its original flavor. I realized porous storage will not work when the air is 24% humidity in winter./quote]
I think you might be on to something about cardboxes and 24% RH. But, tasting like cardboard?, do you mean a transference of the cardboard qualities to the tea, or, just dry like cardboard? Even in BKK, you can get a cardboard taste( dry flavor) if you leave your puerh exposed to the elements even in humid conditions. I keep all of my cakes in food grade plastic bags and am pleased with the progress. And, keep in mind, that teas go through different periods of opening and closing their properties. I don't know what causes this but it is noticeable if you taste test your teas at least once a year. Sometimes a tea becomes very flat and then somehow, it is reborn. Puerh is a mysterious world, but I never believed that the microbes would die off.
Ack what happened to Teachat? I'm reading purple text on purple background. Kinda hard for old bifocal eyes here.
One of the reasons I started doing crock storage was because of what happened to my teas using the cardboard box method. I put several teas into boxes with a bowl of water in 2009 and by 2013 I had tea that tasted like cardboard box. In addition, the tea was too dry and lost a lot if not most of its original flavor. I realized porous storage will not work when the air is 24% humidity in winter./quote]
I think you might be on to something about cardboxes and 24% RH. But, tasting like cardboard?, do you mean a transference of the cardboard qualities to the tea, or, just dry like cardboard? Even in BKK, you can get a cardboard taste( dry flavor) if you leave your puerh exposed to the elements even in humid conditions. I keep all of my cakes in food grade plastic bags and am pleased with the progress. And, keep in mind, that teas go through different periods of opening and closing their properties. I don't know what causes this but it is noticeable if you taste test your teas at least once a year. Sometimes a tea becomes very flat and then somehow, it is reborn. Puerh is a mysterious world, but I never believed that the microbes would die off.
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
[quote]by ALTea » Mar 22nd 16 3:31 am
@CWYN
I am trying your method right now, any only have <6 months experience but I can only realistically keep my tea in crock storage at 50-60% relative humidity in crock storage during the winter time in a dark closet with a humidifier near by.
Is that too low? I usually go off of smell: "if it smells good and alive, everything is ok."/quote]
50-60% is excellent for winter.
@CWYN
I am trying your method right now, any only have <6 months experience but I can only realistically keep my tea in crock storage at 50-60% relative humidity in crock storage during the winter time in a dark closet with a humidifier near by.
Is that too low? I usually go off of smell: "if it smells good and alive, everything is ok."/quote]
50-60% is excellent for winter.
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
Right now, in Hong Kong, the weather has been pretty variable--we've had dry days and very humid days, and the mercury has been moving up and down between 13 Celsius and 24 Celsius in the space of a week.
Today is the warmest day of the year so far in 2016 at almost 24 Celsius (25 at home). Humidity was high this morning. Over 80%. I have a glass Ikea cabinet for my pu erh and teaware in my bedroom. I know when the temperature and humidity are higher, because I can smell the tea through the gaps between the glass panes. This morning I could smell the shu very clearly, but not the sheng on the shelf above it.
A glass cabinet with minimal gaps for airflow and a glass (glasses?) of water might be a good way to go, but I've never tried storing pu erh anywhere exceptionally dry. When it's humid like today, my Yixings on the top shelf take two days to dry out if I've rinsed them out with tap water. I had a cup of water on the shu shelf for a week or two at one point. Even on a dry day, it was evaporating very, very slowly. So slowly that I was worried about mold and got it out of there!
Today is the warmest day of the year so far in 2016 at almost 24 Celsius (25 at home). Humidity was high this morning. Over 80%. I have a glass Ikea cabinet for my pu erh and teaware in my bedroom. I know when the temperature and humidity are higher, because I can smell the tea through the gaps between the glass panes. This morning I could smell the shu very clearly, but not the sheng on the shelf above it.
A glass cabinet with minimal gaps for airflow and a glass (glasses?) of water might be a good way to go, but I've never tried storing pu erh anywhere exceptionally dry. When it's humid like today, my Yixings on the top shelf take two days to dry out if I've rinsed them out with tap water. I had a cup of water on the shu shelf for a week or two at one point. Even on a dry day, it was evaporating very, very slowly. So slowly that I was worried about mold and got it out of there!
Apr 1st, '16, 18:41
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Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
Drink some, leave some in the cupboard, put some elsewhere. Wait another 9 years, make another decision.oolongtimenosee wrote:I know someone who was given some shang pu cakes (Chi Tse Beeng Cha) around 9 years ago. They kept them in a closet in Canada, but because of the low humidity, they taste about the same as they did when they were new. They would like to know if they can re-start the aging process by increasing the humidity level or is it too late? If it's not too late, any suggestions for keeping the humidity at a good level for aging?
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Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
Personally, I would start to see if I can add some humidity. Frankly, you have nothing to lose.
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
Well it is summer now and hopefully you have the weather helping out. Our spring was unseasonably dry so this year so far I lost two months of humidity that I had to add in myself. My teas that are doing well are the better quality leaf with good processing. What doesn't do well are charry or smoky teas, these turn acrid in all but the most humid climates. The char can be somewhat removed by breaking up the cake, some of the flaky bits fall out this way. Stored over one year I removed the acrid taste from one tea that only had the char, and not much of it but enough to notice. These types of teas need more humid climates to work out.
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
I think in a dry climate, I'd use big coolers with digital hygrometers inside and burp air into the cooler every day or two. I'd use tumblers of water with colloidal silver to raise the humidity, and the silver ions should keep the tumblers from becoming microbiological ecosystems of their own!
Glass cabinets are my choice because glass is inert and doesn't give off any funny odors. I never draw the curtains back in my bedroom to prevent sunlight from hitting my cakes and bricks, and the glass naturally reduces UV radiation as is. 90 degrees and 80%+ humidity today--I crack the window during the day to allow air exchange and I run the air conditioner at night. A local tea merchant told me this works fine as long as I don't run air conditioning during the day, and the cabinet limits air exchange so the humidity stays high inside even with the air conditioning going. So far so good; my Kunming storage teas have definitely improved since they got here.
Glass cabinets are my choice because glass is inert and doesn't give off any funny odors. I never draw the curtains back in my bedroom to prevent sunlight from hitting my cakes and bricks, and the glass naturally reduces UV radiation as is. 90 degrees and 80%+ humidity today--I crack the window during the day to allow air exchange and I run the air conditioner at night. A local tea merchant told me this works fine as long as I don't run air conditioning during the day, and the cabinet limits air exchange so the humidity stays high inside even with the air conditioning going. So far so good; my Kunming storage teas have definitely improved since they got here.
Jun 3rd, '16, 18:49
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Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
In Northern climates, a humidor is nearly madatory to prevent tea from dying a dessicated death.
Even still, the results of aging puer here are nowhere near Hong Kong Traditional Storage.
I have stopped buying tea for this reason.
A few years ago, inspired by Hojo, I sealed all of my humidor teas into food-grade vacuum bags 1-3 at a time. They have continued to age inside the bags. In some climates this is done to limit humidity. In my climate, I am actually trapping moisture into the cake/casing.
I have not bought any tea for many years now, and will only buy aged cakes and shu that are "ready to drink".
I have a huge collection of good tea that will always be raw puer with young flavors due to the glacial pace of change these teas undergo.
Even still, the results of aging puer here are nowhere near Hong Kong Traditional Storage.
I have stopped buying tea for this reason.
A few years ago, inspired by Hojo, I sealed all of my humidor teas into food-grade vacuum bags 1-3 at a time. They have continued to age inside the bags. In some climates this is done to limit humidity. In my climate, I am actually trapping moisture into the cake/casing.
I have not bought any tea for many years now, and will only buy aged cakes and shu that are "ready to drink".
I have a huge collection of good tea that will always be raw puer with young flavors due to the glacial pace of change these teas undergo.
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
How did you ensure what level of humidity is trapped inside the bags? I've considered doing some sealing myself, but this detail eludes me.whatsinaname wrote:A few years ago, inspired by Hojo, I sealed all of my humidor teas into food-grade vacuum bags 1-3 at a time. They have continued to age inside the bags. In some climates this is done to limit humidity. In my climate, I am actually trapping moisture into the cake/casing.
Re: Aged pu'er air too dry
you just need to know how much water is present in the cakes... it is all that matters..PurplePotato wrote:How did you ensure what level of humidity is trapped inside the bags? I've considered doing some sealing myself, but this detail eludes me.whatsinaname wrote:A few years ago, inspired by Hojo, I sealed all of my humidor teas into food-grade vacuum bags 1-3 at a time. They have continued to age inside the bags. In some climates this is done to limit humidity. In my climate, I am actually trapping moisture into the cake/casing.
humidity is just the amount of moisture in the air that is in the environment, and that indirectly will affect the cake based on how permeable and how much it can absorb or give up~~