On Dongding and highest quality tea

[kyarazen]

Interesting, so his dongding is really a mix of high mountain leaves from across Taiwan?

I also found it interesting than an electric roast won the competition. My guess is electric roasting allows for much more precise temperature control and less variation in temperature across the roast than with charcoal, where you have much less control as the temperature would inevitably go through peaks and troughs.

As for not entering the competition...why wouldn't a producer enter, when it guarantees a top shelf price for your tea?

Post from MarshalN: he refers to dongding 'style' as higher oxidation and roast than standard green gaoshan.

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 11#p289311

there are many reasons for teas not to get into competitions even in china, when they cannot meet the minimum quantity, this goes for dancong and many other exotics. apart from that, there are also "politics" involved.

his dongding is not a mix, pure single origin high mountain tea (lishan region)

if i'm not wrong the champion for this year used that region too...

[jayinhk]

Interesting, so his dongding is really a mix of high mountain leaves from across Taiwan?

I also found it interesting than an electric roast won the competition. My guess is electric roasting allows for much more precise temperature control and less variation in temperature across the roast than with charcoal, where you have much less control as the temperature would inevitably go through peaks and troughs.

As for not entering the competition...why wouldn't a producer enter, when it guarantees a top shelf price for your tea?

Post from MarshalN: he refers to dongding 'style' as higher oxidation and roast than standard green gaoshan.

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 11#p289311

there are many reasons for teas not to get into competitions even in china, when they cannot meet the minimum quantity, this goes for dancong and many other exotics. apart from that, there are also "politics" involved.

his dongding is not a mix, pure single origin high mountain tea (lishan region)

if i'm not wrong the champion for this year used that region too...

Right, they do want a lot of leaf for the Taiwanese competitions by the sounds of it, and some of the best tea might never make it there if the quantities produced are too low. Good point!

Gotcha, so different fields in the Lishan area. Lishan tea is lovely for sure!

[Tead Off]

Post from MarshalN: he refers to dongding 'style' as higher oxidation and roast than standard green gaoshan.

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 11#p289311

Of course, there is no roast in a green gaoshan. Dong Ding style is the higher oxidation and roast applied to any mountain tea in Taiwan. That is why many of the 'Dong Ding' entries are not grown in Lugu. Lishan and Shanlinxi are also popular teas that get entered in the Dong Ding competition after Hong Shui processing.

This thread has gotten me wondering as to how much Dong Ding is actually charcoal roasted anymore. Personally, I haven't had a great Dong Ding in several years. Perhaps charcoal roasting is losing favor to more efficient and faster means of roasting.

[shah82]

People tend to confuse a high quality tier that is overbought and a tea that is overhyped.

In puerhlandia, the sort of Lao Banzhang tea that shows off why Lao Banzhang is special is enormously expensive, at least for me--at least around $3 a gram. And you can't really substitute other teas, either of lower quality LBZ or similar teas from elsewhere. Good LBZ is quite easy to tell.

You also have Bingdao, where it's even more crazy expensive. However, there is a ton of confusion about what is Bingdao. Thus, at least three different modes of Bingdaos out there--more sandalwoody, more creamy-honey, more musky fruity. It can be good though, but it's rather...a mania.

Then you have the total fantasies. In puerh, this is mostly about fakes of well known areas and hyping more marginal teas that leave the seller with a good margin. Puerh is so nominally transparent and so thoroughly covered in grounded terms, that anyone who has sufficient experience to blow past the bullshit (and this skill is more accessible than skill in drinking oolongs, etc) aren't going to face all that much "little bit better ==lots more $$$" at the top end. Everything is tiered, so the negotiation over margins are between tiers and estimated against what the buyer thinks the rough virtues should cost rather than absolute values.

There are lots of really faddish whites and black teas out there, though. And yeah, oolongs have tiny differences once you get up to the more serious tiers.

The durian talk is fun. It's a lot like reading about newer Zill mango breeds or the new stone fruit hybrid. Lots of disappointment by the orchardists over how the Nadia pluerry doesn't resemble a large cherry! Although when it comes to classical fruits, aside from plums, pluots, etc, the best varieties are generally all from the 1600s or 1700s. There have been a lot of modern fig breeding, but the best figs are still fairly old ones.

[ethan]

shah82,

fun & interesting post, thanks. You make buying puerh sound easy once someone has studied it enough. That is not my impression. Fortunately, I am comfortable staying away from it for purchasing. I have trouble understanding how comfortable people are as they hold onto hundreds of dollars' worth of pu that won't prove itself a good or bad buy until years later.

Also, I do not think it is easy to buy oolong tea, at least by its names & descriptions. Fortunately, a taste tells one plenty. When at places w/ huge selection, even this can be difficult. One needs to direct the vendor to bring out the teas, one might want.

The skill I want for oolongs is for me to be understood when I say what I want. Words that I think are simple, such as "floral" or "sweet" are not understood as I understand them. I do not enjoy visiting a farmer or vendor to try several teas that there is no chance of me liking & leaving because my welcome has worn out before I might have found that he has a tea I should buy.

In Taiwan one is supposed to make known what quality he seeks &/or how much he wants to pay.

I hope to improve "my game". Last trip I did not taste one good dong ding, but I have read here that they do exist.

[kyarazen]

hmm.. it remains subjective. i wont pay a single cent for pu-erh anymore, whether it is laobanzhang or raopanchang or whatever anymore

[Tead Off]

hmm.. it remains subjective. i wont pay a single cent for pu-erh anymore, whether it is laobanzhang or raopanchang or whatever anymore

Will you take any tribute tea?

[Bok]

hmm.. it remains subjective. i wont pay a single cent for pu-erh anymore, whether it is laobanzhang or raopanchang or whatever anymore

Will you take any tribute tea?

All hail the king! just kidding...

[Bok]

This thread has gotten me wondering as to how much Dong Ding is actually charcoal roasted anymore. Personally, I haven't had a great Dong Ding in several years. Perhaps charcoal roasting is losing favor to more efficient and faster means of roasting.

From what I hear among my tea acquaintances here, it has become the exception.
If so, they usually call it Hong Shui oolong to distinguish themselves from what is now the mainstream Dong Ding, even though HS is closer to what Dong Ding supposedly used to be.

On the positive side it seems to have seen sort of a rennaisance, but then again it might be just in the same vein as other sales talk as Handcrafted/wild tree/picked from monkey, bitten by the bug/what have you not...
Especially among western sellers there seems to be a lot of fancy names and teas one never hears of among Taiwanese tea enthousiasts...

[Tead Off]

This thread has gotten me wondering as to how much Dong Ding is actually charcoal roasted anymore. Personally, I haven't had a great Dong Ding in several years. Perhaps charcoal roasting is losing favor to more efficient and faster means of roasting.

From what I hear among my tea acquaintances here, it has become the exception.
If so, they usually call it Hong Shui oolong to distinguish themselves from what is now the mainstream Dong Ding, even though HS is closer to what Dong Ding supposedly used to be.

On the positive side it seems to have seen sort of a rennaisance, but then again it might be just in the same vein as other sales talk as Handcrafted/wild tree/picked from monkey, bitten by the bug/what have you not...
Especially among western sellers there seems to be a lot of fancy names and teas one never hears of among Taiwanese tea enthousiasts...

For anyone interested in Hong Shui/Dong Ding, check out Teamaster's blog

[Bok]

So back to the valleys of Lugu and Dong Ding tea…

All the talk in the group buy got me curious about Chen Hauyings tea.
Got me some heavy roasted Dong Ding. After the recommended awakening procedure (took only about a tea in my climate), I started to brew it.

Finished two sessions before passing on my opinion. One with a porcelain pot, the second with simple Taiwanese glazed clay and porcelain cups.

My comparisons to this tea would be a similarily roasted Lishan from my usual sources, various Dong Ding of unknown provenance which I had been gifted over the years and a Hung Shui oolong from the Jade Leaf. His would probably come closest to CHY Dong Ding, both are charcoal roasted.

What sets CHY’s apart from the others is, apart from the pricetag, the lack of any sour notes which tend to come up in all the others I had. Especially if pushed too hard, or forgotten about. Very clear mouthfeel and some interesting flavours going on. Hints of some flavours I previously had with some very good Laocha. Altogether nicely rounded and very balanced profile. Can‘t put my finger on it but a lot what is sold as DD has a “dirty” ruggedness about it, this tea is the opposite and feels clean.

What I was missing is a bit more throatfeel and aftertaste, but maybe that is due to being a real Dong Ding and thus from a lower elevation? Also not going for as long as I had expected, around 3 very good, six good and a couple more of ok-ish infusions. Either need to change my brewing parameters or stop after six. I have too much tea too drink to max out one session. Some people do that, but I do not see the point of drinking lightly flavoured water

All in all pretty good stuff and definitely something different to most other DD I had.

[kyarazen]

you should have asked him for the maocha (from different days of harvest if any) and different oxidation states of the maocha.. i.e. floral... fruity oxidations.. and then different firings from low to medium to heavy that would be the most fun to explore/experiment

he did heavy roast mostly for me as it is quite a "southern flavour" and in heavier roasts, abt 5 times on longan wood charcoal, the flavour and profile of the tea is wispier, drier, and need the "fired" notes to recede before it becomes delectable. probably a couple of years of sealed aging >.<

[Bok]

he did heavy roast mostly for me as it is quite a "southern flavour" and in heavier roasts, abt 5 times on longan wood charcoal, the flavour and profile of the tea is wispier, drier, and need the "fired" notes to recede before it becomes delectable. probably a couple of years of sealed aging >.<

Interesting! So did you request this heavier roasting from him with ageing in mind, or just generally for the different flavour profile?

I got half a Jing, so I might set some aside. Do not have a suitable empty jar at hand, but vacuum pack should be ok for now, shouldn’t it?

Might get a broader range next time to have a better comparison, this time I couldn’t get more past the matrimonial-customs

[Bok]

Actually, as an extended thought: should a heavy roasted always let to be aged for a while?
To take off the edge of the fire?

Even had this once with a greener high mountain, the tea was still too fresh and had some hints of fire. After some rest it turned out pretty well.

[kyarazen]

Actually, as an extended thought: should a heavy roasted always let to be aged for a while?
To take off the edge of the fire?

Even had this once with a greener high mountain, the tea was still too fresh and had some hints of fire. After some rest it turned out pretty well.

yes.. that is a very "southern" way of doing things to achieve the flavour/profile they are looking for.