buying teapot with real, high quality zisha clay

[lotustea]

Thanks Bok for letting me know that the zisha clay effect on the tea is hugely overstated. I only intend to buy 2-3 high quality teapot to dedicate to just 2-3 type of tea. I only intend to drink 2-3 type of tea. However, if the improvement is minor and I can't notice it then there is no point in paying hundred of usd to get high quality zisha teapot.

[steanze]

Quote MarshalN one internet authority in regards to old pots:

I’ve written about using pots before. Basically, they don’t affect the tea nearly as much as most people think, and physical attributes (size, shape, pour speed, etc) are much more important than things like clay.

I disagree with MarshalN on this one I'd agree if he meant that the difference between very specific clays (e.g. mine #4 dicaoqing vs CR qingshuini) is not very important for the effects on tea. But the difference between zini and hongni/zhuni is huge.

Pour speed and size are obviously also important, you would not want to make yancha with a 200ml pot, or with a pot that pours very slowly. Shape and thickness affect heat retention. Firing also affects the results, so there are many variables to consider. But pots with similar size, shape, pour speed, and firing, one made of hongni, the other of qingshuini, will make quite different brews...

[William]

But pots with similar size, shape, pour speed, and firing, one made of hongni, the other of qingshuini, will make quite different brews...

Couldn't agree more!

[lotustea]

"I think we should start from a different question: what tea would you like to make? Because the optimal teapots to make different kinds of tea are
quite different."

I'm going to drink just exclusively about 3 types of tea. I have not decide which 3 yet. I think it is definitely going to be at least west lake lotus tea, but I'm not sure if it is going to be green lotus tea or white lotus tea. Right now I'm testing out famous and top quality tea from VietNam, China and India. Possibly I will pick west lake lotus tea, white tea from VietNam very old tree and Darjeeling imperial silver tip.
I like the plum blossom teapot on ebay and a hei jin sha xi shi teapot. I think people don't usually use zisha teapot with green and white tea. I buy a teapot that look nice to me more than trying to match the tea with the teapot. Is the flat shape of the plum blossom teapot and the xi shi teapot ok for green, white and darjeeling imperial silver tip?
How much do you think the plum blossom teapot on ebay (300ml capacity) would cost if it is make from high quality zisha clay and make by little known artist?

[steanze]

"I think we should start from a different question: what tea would you like to make? Because the optimal teapots to make different kinds of tea are
quite different."

I'm going to drink just exclusively about 3 types of tea. I have not decide which 3 yet. I think it is definitely going to be at least west lake lotus tea, but I'm not sure if it is going to be green lotus tea or white lotus tea. Right now I'm testing out famous and top quality tea from VietNam, China and India. Possibly I will pick west lake lotus tea, white tea from VietNam very old tree and Darjeeling imperial silver tip.
I like the plum blossom teapot on ebay and a hei jin sha xi shi teapot. I think people don't usually use zisha teapot with green and white tea. I buy a teapot that look nice to me more than trying to match the tea with the teapot. Is the flat shape of the plum blossom teapot and the xi shi teapot ok for green, white and darjeeling imperial silver tip?
How much do you think the plum blossom teapot on ebay (300ml capacity) would cost if it is make from high quality zisha clay and make by little known artist?

My opinion is that if you want to make green tea and white tea, porcelain will be much better than Yixing. It does not make much sense to buy Yixing pots to make those types of tea. It's a bit like buying a pair of expensive classic leather shoes to go jogging. Only a thin walled hongni/zhuni pot will work for those teas, they are expensive and hard to come by, and they are usually made of very simple shapes (not decorated).

[lotustea]

"I think we should start from a different question: what tea would you like to make? Because the optimal teapots to make different kinds of tea are
quite different."

I'm going to drink just exclusively about 3 types of tea. I have not decide which 3 yet. I think it is definitely going to be at least west lake lotus tea, but I'm not sure if it is going to be green lotus tea or white lotus tea. Right now I'm testing out famous and top quality tea from VietNam, China and India. Possibly I will pick west lake lotus tea, white tea from VietNam very old tree and Darjeeling imperial silver tip.
I like the plum blossom teapot on ebay and a hei jin sha xi shi teapot. I think people don't usually use zisha teapot with green and white tea. I buy a teapot that look nice to me more than trying to match the tea with the teapot. Is the flat shape of the plum blossom teapot and the xi shi teapot ok for green, white and darjeeling imperial silver tip?
How much do you think the plum blossom teapot on ebay (300ml capacity) would cost if it is make from high quality zisha clay and make by little known artist?

My opinion is that if you want to make green tea and white tea, porcelain will be much better than Yixing. It does not make much sense to buy Yixing pots to make those types of tea. It's a bit like buying a pair of expensive classic leather shoes to go jogging. Only a thin walled hongni/zhuni pot will work for those teas, they are expensive and hard to come by, and they are usually made of very simple shapes (not decorated).

Thank you. A lot people like zhuni, but I like lu ni, duan ni and hei jin.

[steanze]

Thank you. A lot people like zhuni, but I like lu ni, duan ni and hei jin.

It's very difficult to find good quality lv ni (ben shan). There's a few pots from late Qing and a 1960s F1 pot, but every time I've seen it for sale it was above $1000. In my experience modern mou lv ni is not particularly good clay. Decent duanni is easier to find, so among those that's what I'd aim for.

For my taste, duanni is too porous for green tea and white tea. But if you like it, go for it there is not one right way to brew tea, the important thing is that you know how to use the tools to achieve the effects you desire.

What's hei jin, this one? https://verdanttea.com/teas/jian-ying-h ... y-tea-pot/
That's no good... it's a modern clay type made up because the better ones were becoming too expensive. My advice is to stay away from that stuff...

[steanze]

Thank you. A lot people like zhuni, but I like lu ni, duan ni and hei jin.

By the way, my recommendation of thin-walled hongni or zhuni was not based on aesthetics. It was based on the effects it has on tea. Duanni removes some aroma/fragrance from tea, and since delicate aromas are a key aspect of green tea and white tea, I would not use duanni to make those teas. Zhuni/hongni are the types of clays that do best at highlighting the aromas, that's why I suggested to use those.

[kuánglóng]

I buy a teapot that look nice to me more than trying to match the tea with the teapot.

Chacun à son goût

[steanze]

Good luck finding fancy shaped Yixing pots made from the clays you've listed below that do a better job than a simple porcelain pot with those three teas you've mentioned, especially DJ silver tips.

+1
Also to give you a sense of how "good" that hei jin clay is, you can get pots made of that on taobao for 12 bucks: https://world.tmall.com/item/5345434182 ... 0.0.2kdyVZ

[chrl42]

Thank you. A lot people like zhuni, but I like lu ni, duan ni and hei jin.

It's very difficult to find good quality lv ni (ben shan). There's a few pots from late Qing and a 1960s F1 pot, but every time I've seen it for sale it was above $1000. In my experience modern mou lv ni is not particularly good clay. Decent duanni is easier to find, so among those that's what I'd aim for.

For my taste, duanni is too porous for green tea and white tea. But if you like it, go for it there is not one right way to brew tea, the important thing is that you know how to use the tools to achieve the effects you desire.

What's hei jin, this one? https://verdanttea.com/teas/jian-ying-h ... y-tea-pot/
That's no good... it's a modern clay type made up because the better ones were becoming too expensive. My advice is to stay away from that stuff...

High-qualty Lvni is among the rarest, the quantity is smallest plus it's the hardest to fire.

If a potter fire Lvni, most of the time he/she just fires unappropriately (purer the more difficult), which results in appearing 土黑 (black blot) while using, or oxidated colors while firing. So often it's mixed with other clays or 'plaster' over different clays during the old time.

There is a very strict temperature needed for pure Lvni and formula (when to cool the temp then when to heat again)..that's why you rarely (almost none) see antique Lvni pots and 70~early-80s no.4 mine Lvni pots are notorious to appear 'black blot'.

Once you succeed to acquire, it just becomes jade..no other modern clays can beat that glory..

[chrl42]

Thank you. A lot people like zhuni, but I like lu ni, duan ni and hei jin.

It's very difficult to find good quality lv ni (ben shan). There's a few pots from late Qing and a 1960s F1 pot, but every time I've seen it for sale it was above $1000. In my experience modern mou lv ni is not particularly good clay. Decent duanni is easier to find, so among those that's what I'd aim for.

For my taste, duanni is too porous for green tea and white tea. But if you like it, go for it there is not one right way to brew tea, the important thing is that you know how to use the tools to achieve the effects you desire.

What's hei jin, this one? https://verdanttea.com/teas/jian-ying-h ... y-tea-pot/
That's no good... it's a modern clay type made up because the better ones were becoming too expensive. My advice is to stay away from that stuff...

High-qualty Lvni is among the rarest, the quantity is smallest plus it's the hardest to fire.

If a potter fire Lvni, most of the time he/she just fires unappropriately (purer the more difficult), which results in appearing 土黑 (black blot) while using, or oxidated colors while firing. So often it's mixed with other clays or 'plaster' over different clays during the old time.

There is a very strict temperature needed for pure Lvni and formula (when to cool the temp then when to heat again)..that's why you rarely (almost none) see antique Lvni pots and 70~early-80s no.4 mine Lvni pots are notorious to appear 'black blot'.

Once you succeed to acquire, it just becomes jade..no other modern clays can beat that glory..

Good Lvni texture is extremely smooth that a tea towel just slips over it..and is of pure
'sand' which is a silica component, sorta like Baini but Baini is mainly of kaolin

[tcsmeg]

Would like to put my comment here thought I am new in teachat.

I 'm not sure if anybody have go more details in the zisha teapot. The benefit of the zisha is it is porous, the air still could go through the surface of the teapot and the porous surface could accumulate the favour and the tea itself in long term.

So, one type of tea for each zisha teapot and in long term, the teapot itself would give the favours of the type of tea itself even with hot plain water. We use call "teapot awakening" by pouring hot water the zisha teapot which will give the "old tea flavours" as well as warming up the teapot temperature.

By proper maintenance, the zisha teapot colour will change in long term. In most cases, the colour would be deeper with shining effect. In Chinese, to keep a zisha teapot, we call it "养“, and if translate in english, it is "rear" same as you keep your pets. The same goes to some type of ceramic with cracks effects as part of its aesthetic value.. The longer you use, the more crack would be observed on the ceramic.

Of course you need to practice and learnt to appreciate a good zisha teapot. Generally, a good zisha teapot is more expensive than Japanese tetsubin and in China they have already clarified the grade of the craftsmanship level. There is no way general public could afford the highest master zisha teapot which is only available under professional auction and in term of 10k use and above. However, other category of craftsmanship is still available to public in the price range from 300 a few thousand usd. A brand new handmade zisha even by the lowest grade should be about 50 USD and above. Below that, it could be suspected mass produced by mixing the clay with some silicon base liquid and poured into the standard moulds. Basically this type of teapot loose the "breathing effect", although much cheaper, not recommendable.

A good zisha clay product would generally have the sand texture on its surface, exceptional is made to certain type of zisha clay . The name of zisha itself is purple (zi), sand (she) in Chinese. Glazing zisha and teapot produced under spinning process has generally lost the porous effects and not acceptable by the zisha enthusiastic.

That is my experience in my zisha collection. Any further comments from other are most welcome.

[lotustea]

Thank you. A lot people like zhuni, but I like lu ni, duan ni and hei jin.

It's very difficult to find good quality lv ni (ben shan). There's a few pots from late Qing and a 1960s F1 pot, but every time I've seen it for sale it was above $1000. In my experience modern mou lv ni is not particularly good clay. Decent duanni is easier to find, so among those that's what I'd aim for.

For my taste, duanni is too porous for green tea and white tea. But if you like it, go for it there is not one right way to brew tea, the important thing is that you know how to use the tools to achieve the effects you desire.

What's hei jin, this one? https://verdanttea.com/teas/jian-ying-h ... y-tea-pot/
That's no good... it's a modern clay type made up because the better ones were becoming too expensive. My advice is to stay away from that stuff...

Thank you. Zhisa teapot is a treasure. Spending $1000-$1500 for a high quality zisha teapot isn't much. The problem is which internet seller do I trust, how do I get the real thing? I'm afraid spending a lot of money on poison, instead of treasure. I received a lot of mix advises. Some tell me it is not worth it because there are too many fake. The risk is too high. Also there is a Vietnamese saying "first water, second tea, third how to brew tea and four teapot". I think it is more of a collection mind set. Wanting to own something valuable. I think the zisha teapot effect the mind more than the tea. No doubt it has effect, but not as much as people think. I want to own a high quality zisha teapot too, but I will not spend $1000-$1500 for it unless I'm sure I get the real thing and completely satisfy. It has to have high quality clay, the color I like and the artistic design I like.

[lotustea]

Thank you. A lot people like zhuni, but I like lu ni, duan ni and hei jin.

It's very difficult to find good quality lv ni (ben shan). There's a few pots from late Qing and a 1960s F1 pot, but every time I've seen it for sale it was above $1000. In my experience modern mou lv ni is not particularly good clay. Decent duanni is easier to find, so among those that's what I'd aim for.

For my taste, duanni is too porous for green tea and white tea. But if you like it, go for it there is not one right way to brew tea, the important thing is that you know how to use the tools to achieve the effects you desire.

What's hei jin, this one? https://verdanttea.com/teas/jian-ying-h ... y-tea-pot/
That's no good... it's a modern clay type made up because the better ones were becoming too expensive. My advice is to stay away from that stuff...

High-qualty Lvni is among the rarest, the quantity is smallest plus it's the hardest to fire.

If a potter fire Lvni, most of the time he/she just fires unappropriately (purer the more difficult), which results in appearing 土黑 (black blot) while using, or oxidated colors while firing. So often it's mixed with other clays or 'plaster' over different clays during the old time.

There is a very strict temperature needed for pure Lvni and formula (when to cool the temp then when to heat again)..that's why you rarely (almost none) see antique Lvni pots and 70~early-80s no.4 mine Lvni pots are notorious to appear 'black blot'.

Once you succeed to acquire, it just becomes jade..no other modern clays can beat that glory..

Thank you for the info. Someone already told me what you just wrote. Also, I bought a zisha luni teapot a few months ago. The seller told me it is a mix. She said luni is difficult to make so have to mix with other clay. Are you in Shanghai? Do you know Wan Ling tea house in Shanghai?