Health concerns of tea and IngenuiTEA

[Chip]

The story is rarely this clear cut. Japan has suffered a number of public safety scandals, for example:

"Snow Brand's meatpacking subsidiary was accused last month of illegally repackaging imported beef to make it appear to be domestic and qualify for special government subsidies; a criminal investigation was begun. The scandal was the latest in a string of episodes that have rocked corporate Japan and raised concerns among the country's consumers.

"And it has undone the company's 18-month campaign to repair its image and regain consumer trust after Snow Brand suffered a major setback in July 2000 -- a sweeping recall of its dairy products because milk contaminated with bacteria made more than 13,000 people ill." (NY Times, Feb. 6, 2002)

More troubling still, its Ministry of Health presided over a fiasco that infected 2000 of Japanese citizens with HIV virus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV-tainte ... al_(Japan)

This does not negate the damage to China's reputation stemming from defective toys, dog food and tires (anyone recall Firestone?). However, I do hope it give us all pause and restraint in bashing the thousands upon thousands of reputable producers, growers and manufactures who need not suffer the transgressions of a few bad apples. The latter, unfortunately, rear their ugly head everywhere.

Still, the need for more testing is upon us, if not now, when???

[Ed]

I'm going to cancel my order for Beef Flavored Sencha now.
Thanks for reminding me why I don't eat beef very often.

I agree that there are bad apples everywhere. I'd like to see more testing on Japanese tea too. There are some great suppliers like Hibiki-an that voluntarily subject their tea to testing in order to meet EU requirements for residual chemicals.

I don't want to "bash" any Chinese growers that are trying their best to grow good, healthy tea. I just think there should be accountability. If the tests come out clean then you've got bragging rights! If they don't come out clean then; "Houston, We Have a Problem".

[skywarrior]

I've been more and more eating organic food and, while the concept of organic tea appeals greatly to me, I'm a realist.

While I don't know all the particulars, it's my understanding that organic coffee is a joke and I suspect organic tea is probably the same way. Unless you could really control the farms where the product was grown -- and the factory where it is dried, etc, -- you're pretty much dealing with an imported product where the controls are highly suspect. The companies who import the tea are probably the ones who may have to impose some sort of quality control. But even then, I think you have to rely on the integrity of the farmer and the workers at some point.

So, I'm not stopping my tea drinking habit anytime soon. And I'm unlikely to buy a tea just because it says "organic" on it.

[Chip]

By the way, I want to stress that I am not bashing Chinese tea en totale. I truthfully love Chinese teas such as Long Jing and their oolongs.

I just truly believe there is a percentage of Chinese tea that is potentially dangerously contaminated. Thus, I feel much more testing needs to be done in order for me to be comfortable with Chinese tea in general again..

After all, how much is actually randomly tested by the USDA...1%, 5%, 10%??? My friend in China told me how tea companies who have their contaminated teas rejected by German labs, turn around and sell it in the USA because our testing is so much more porous. That sickens me. This information came first hand by the way.

The DDT arguments I am hearing here are not swaying me at all. It is one thing to spray DDT to reduce malaria (though I cannot feel that is 100% right either, but I can understand it). It is completely different to be spraying it on tea plants or any agricultural crop.

It is even illegal to do so in China, but it is not being enforced.

[skywarrior]

I just truly believe there is a percentage of Chinese tea that is potentially dangerously contaminated. Thus, I feel much more testing needs to be done in order for me to be comfortable with Chinese tea in general again..

After all, how much is actually randomly tested by the USDA...1%, 5%, 10%??? My friend in China told me how tea companies who have their contaminated teas rejected by German labs, turn around and sell it in the USA because our testing is so much more porous. That sickens me. This information came first hand by the way.

I've done a lot of research on the pet food/melamine mess. Basically it comes down to this: about 1.3% of food imported is inspected. I don't quite understand the jurisdiction when it comes to imported foods, both the FDA and the USDA seem to have their hands in the inspections.

That being said, there isn't enough inspections happening, but a lot of it has to do with the lack of manpower and money. The inspections happen more often on suspect things, rather than stuff that normally doesn't cause a problem.

But yeah, it's a concern.

[Wesli]

That being said, there isn't enough inspections happening, but a lot of it has to do with the lack of manpower and money. The inspections happen more often on suspect things, rather than stuff that normally doesn't cause a problem.

But yeah, it's a concern.

If they build a lab for me, I'll do some inspections.

[skywarrior]

That being said, there isn't enough inspections happening, but a lot of it has to do with the lack of manpower and money. The inspections happen more often on suspect things, rather than stuff that normally doesn't cause a problem.

But yeah, it's a concern.

If they build a lab for me, I'll do some inspections.

All it takes is money...

[Wesli]

If I win the lottery, I'll build some labs.

But seriously, we should all send a few letters to our representatives in the government. I'll be writing mine shortly.

[Chip]

If I win the lottery, I'll build some labs.

But seriously, we should all send a few letters to our representatives in the government. I'll be writing mine shortly.

One big problem with only government regulation...what about those of us who place international orders. It can become a logistical nightmare.

But actually, this is not to far off from what I have been considering for a few years. Private testing. As I wrote above, I am endeavoring to form a non profit org. to privately test tea.

Funding is a huge issue though. Testing is costly.

[Wesli]

I am endeavoring to form a non profit org. to privately test tea.

Funding is a huge issue though. Testing is costly.

Well, you have my support (but not my wallet).

[ABx]

I think the main thing that Michael is trying to convey is the bigger picture, which I think does indeed need to be looked at. I honestly don't see avoiding tea by country as an effective measure. There are going to be contaminated products from everywhere, and the contamination can happen anywhere along the route from when the plant very first starts to grow to when the infusion actually touches your tongue. It's a risk we take with each and every consumable that we obtain from any third party.

I agree that more regulation and better testing needs to be done, but that's not going to solve everything. Apparently 85% of all milk in the US tested in 2005 tested positive for DDT.

There are, however, a number of tea farmers (in China and elsewhere) that are going out of their way to do the right thing and going organic. It occurs to me that a much more effective strategy would be to support those farmers. Some are going organic because of demand, or because it produces better tea (which increases demand).

Simply avoiding Chinese teas would seem an empty gesture to me, and I have serious doubts that you'd really be cutting the risk of encountering contaminants by any meaningful degree. The issues are much bigger than that, and any action would need to be taken would need to be appropriately wide and multifaceted; buy more organic products of all kinds, talk to vendors, support watchdog groups, sign petitions, talk to relevant authorities and parties, spread the word and raise interest in organic products, support those that are coming up with solutions and alternatives, and so on.

I have respect for those that make an effort to support positive change through their choices and actions, but the effort has to be a real and meaningful one. If you're avoiding certain teas in an effort to avoid DDT (and other such things), then I certainly hope you're doing the research to avoid it in everything else you consume from every source, and not just a single product from a single country. I would also certainly hope that you're seeking out those trying to make a difference and support them however you can -- particularly the ones that are making a point of creating their products the right way.

Just make sure you've got perspective on the bigger picture. Misunderstanding will lead to misguided actions that don't get anyone any closer to the solution. If the issue is an environmental one, then approaching it as a public health issue may not only result in wasted time and effort, but may also keep a person from seeing real opportunities that could make a real difference.

I don't necessarily agree with Michael and Adagio about organic teas, most of the best teas that I have are organic and many cost the same or less than most others, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss what he's brought up in this thread either. I've always valued this forum for having an atmosphere of learning instead of debating or arguing, of taking in differing viewpoints to gain a better understanding (on both sides), and so I'd hope this subject to be no different.

[ABx]

Chip: If you're seriously thinking about doing private testing, you might contact the folks at http://www.teascience.org , they might have information, resources, or members to help you out or at least give you pointers to get you started. You might also check out some of the books they published.

[Space Samurai]

I agree whole-heartedly with ABx.

I frequently and consistantly get recalls on products from all over for a variety of factors.

I get to develop relationships with many of our vendors who import coffee and tea, and I work with the folks at Transfair USA who monitor Fair Trade, and I can tell you that its not a "joke." That isn't to say that there isn't corruption, I am sure there is, but the numerous possitive results are there, and its better than doing nothing.

[Chip]

The fact that there are 28 posts for this topic is encouraging to me. It shows that there is much more interest today than previously. I recall a similar thread that died very quickly a year ago.

More interest in this subject from more people is very good.

I agree with ABx, read up on the subject and do not simply make assumptions.

The fact that China is the primary target of interest right now, does not mean that there are not other countries that bare watching as well.

I appreciate this forum where we tea drinkers everywhere can come together and discuss this issue and express our concerns.

[wyardley]

I think it's absolutely insane that a site admin (presumably a representative of Adagio) is saying with his work hat on that pesticides represent no health risk to people who ingest them (or, for that matter, for people in areas where they're used).

At the very least, it's a gross oversimplification to say that (legal) pesticides are never harmful to people. There are probably some studies that show they're safe; there are probably a lot of other studies that show they're not. I don't claim to be an expert, and I don't want to get into a long flamewar about whether pesticides are, generally speaking, benign, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that the only reason certified organic produce has become such a big buzzword is because people are paranoid. Some (legal) pesticides absolutely do have some potentially harmful effects on humans. Beyond that, I agree with some of the other posters that it is highly likely that some tea farmers in China are using illegal or unsafe pesticides, whether knowingly or not.

That's not to say that "organic" certification is perfect - it's not, and especially in China / Taiwan / etc., it's very likely that much of the tea sold as organic isn't - corruption is just too rampant. One of the other major issues with certification is that it provides some barriers to entry for small farmers (some sort of co-op might be one way to help with this). A lot of folks are repeating the "China bad, Taiwan good" mantra (or the reverse), which I've seen a lot on that group - I think a lot of that has to do with politics more than actual fact.

There has been a long discussion about this recently on the rec.food.drink.tea newsgroup - I encourage folks to check it out (Google Groups is a web accessible interface to USENET newsgroups). I also saw discussion about it on San Zui (a Chinese tea forum), so I know it's something that is being thought about there as well.

Personally, I try to eat organic, non-GMO (and ideally local) produce as much as possible, and I try to support local farmers, especially those who don't use synthetic pesticides, as much as I can (whether or not they have "organic" certification).

But with tea, because it's just too hard (for now) to get a straight answer out of anyone... certifications can be forged, and non-certified tea can be pesticide free. Because of the environmental pollution in China, even tea that is not sprayed with synthetic pesticides may have environmental contaminants from the rain and / or soil.

I simply try to buy tea that tastes good, from vendors I trust. If the tea doesn't make me feel good after I drink it, I try not to drink it again. Without being able to communicate directly with the farmers and see the farms, that's the best I can do - no amount of certification is going to make me drink a tea or not.

I'm definitely happy, though, when I see little bug bites on my leaves - maybe not a for-sure sign, but definitely a hint that maybe the farmer wasn't using any spray.

BTW, on rfdt, someone did offer to do some tests for contaminants on some tea, but he needs a pretty big sample (250g) to test on... with really high grade, the cost of this would be prohibitive, but with cheaper stuff, it seems like something that might be interesting to check out.