New Yixing...but what tea to use?

[hop_goblin]

Yep, once you start using your Yixing, you will say to yourself "how did I ever brew tea witout one".

[britt]

My choice - Oolong. Any oolong is suitable for yixing teapots, but not green nor white.

The Taiwanese High Mountain oolongs, which typically have only 15% oxidation and no roasting, don't always match well to Yixings. A good match can be found with enough effort and a bit of luck, but IMO you can't brew this tea in just any randomly purchased Yixing.

I have seen an Yixing listed by a very respected source as suitable for green and white teas. I do not doubt the truth in this, but that particular Yixing style is not often available. It was very wide and low, and quite compressed, allowing for quick release of the excess heat that is so detrimental to green and white tea. The clay was thin and the pot very light, which should also enhance the flavor of these teas.

On the other hand, it is less trouble to just brew green, white, and high mountain in a porcelain cup or gaiwan. However, not all gaiwans are created equal or are suitable for all teas. For the lighter teas mentioned above, the porcelain should be very thin and light for best results. I've only owned three gaiwans and these teas brewed very differently in each one. Two have been given away. Of the two Jing De Zhens, the first was poorly made, and it was quite thick and heavy for porcelain. The tea brewed in it was also thick and heavy in taste. The second Jing De Zhen, which was purchased from Jing Tea Shop, is very thin and light. You can see the outside hand-painted designs showing through while looking at the inside. Green tea brewed in this gaiwan tastes light, crisp, and refreshing, which is the way I think it should be.

[Proinsias]

If you don't feel TGY was the right choice I don't think switching to keemun would be a problem. If you used a pot for keemun for a long time I think it would be more problematic to switch to TGY.

In short: Good choice, yeah!

[chrl42]

My choice - Oolong. Any oolong is suitable for yixing teapots, but not green nor white.

The Taiwanese High Mountain oolongs, which typically have only 15% oxidation and no roasting, don't always match well to Yixings. A good match can be found with enough effort and a bit of luck, but IMO you can't brew this tea in just any randomly purchased Yixing.

I have seen an Yixing listed by a very respected source as suitable for green and white teas. I do not doubt the truth in this, but that particular Yixing style is not often available. It was very wide and low, and quite compressed, allowing for quick release of the excess heat that is so detrimental to green and white tea. The clay was thin and the pot very light, which should also enhance the flavor of these teas.

On the other hand, it is less trouble to just brew green, white, and high mountain in a porcelain cup or gaiwan. However, not all gaiwans are created equal or are suitable for all teas. For the lighter teas mentioned above, the porcelain should be very thin and light for best results. I've only owned three gaiwans and these teas brewed very differently in each one. Two have been given away. Of the two Jing De Zhens, the first was poorly made, and it was quite thick and heavy for porcelain. The tea brewed in it was also thick and heavy in taste. The second Jing De Zhen, which was purchased from Jing Tea Shop, is very thin and light. You can see the outside hand-painted designs showing through while looking at the inside. Green tea brewed in this gaiwan tastes light, crisp, and refreshing, which is the way I think it should be.

britt, all Yixing clays have its specific characters which have its best pair.

For example, Puerh requires to be brewed at very high temperature - so it needs to be brewed in thick and circular patterns to keep the heat. And it naturally contains random odor so porous Zini types that are required.

Light-roasted Oolongs, however, will turn bitter in such Yixings. So there is Taiwanese & Cantonese favorite clay - Zhuni. Zhuni's dense texture will protect aroma from absorbing and thin-skinned body types will keep leaves fresher. So Taiwanese prefer yixings that's tall, thin, Zhuni pot best for their light-oolongs.

But no, white teas and green teas have a reason not to be brewed in yixings. Both are most delicate form of all teas, brewing in a yixing will cause
1 - cooked from rushing of heats
2 - aroma absorbed to yixing's porous nature
So porcelains are chosen to brew those, plus shape of leaves are high consideration when brewing green or white but brewing in yixing will miss that point too.

[Proinsias]

I'm a fan of glass/pyrex brewing for whites and greens as temperature does not need to kept high and I love watching the leaf dancing in a tall glass jug, I suppose I could use a glass gaiwan but I don't think it would look quite as nice a my jug.

[britt]

Light-roasted Oolongs, however, will turn bitter in such Yixings. So there is Taiwanese & Cantonese favorite clay - Zhuni. Zhuni's dense texture will protect aroma from absorbing and thin-skinned body types will keep leaves fresher.

I'm not talking about lightly roasted oolong, but lightly oxidized, unroasted oolong.

I ended up using a Hong Ni Yixing for lightly oxidized Taiwanese oolongs. The shape, weight, and clay thickness seemed to make a bigger difference than the type of clay. The one I chose is a three-footed pot, which allows for a rounded instead of flat bottom. This provides better air circulation and cooling because it keeps the bottom of the pot off of the counter surface.

Zhuni seems hard to come by, but I would like to try it if given the opportunity.

So Taiwanese prefer yixings that's tall, thin, Zhuni pot best for their light-oolongs.

I guess opinions vary even within a country or region, as I've heard Taiwanese recommend both compressed and uncompressed round Yixings for the high mountain oolongs. This may be because each leaf-bud-leaf combination is rolled into a single ball, requiring extra room to expand.

But no, white teas and green teas have a reason not to be brewed in yixings. Both are most delicate form of all teas, brewing in a yixing will cause
1 - cooked from rushing of heats
2 - aroma absorbed to yixing's porous nature
So porcelains are chosen to brew those, plus shape of leaves are high consideration when brewing green or white but brewing in yixing will miss that point too.

To get the best from green tea in a gaiwan requires the same consideration as getting the best from a given tea in an Yixing teapot. Gaiwans vary very much from one to another, and care is required in choosing one. I have brewed lighter teas in two different Jing De Zhen gaiwans. One gave very poor results while the other gave superior results. I see no reason why an Yixing can't be specifically made for lighter teas and perform well with them, the same way a poorly designed gaiwan will give poor results with the same tea.

[chrl42]

I'm not talking about lightly roasted oolong, but lightly oxidized, unroasted oolong..

britt, frankly, I've never heard such Oolong that does not go thru the roasting process exists, if not roasted then how else do you think it will kill oxidation? Slow-killing the way White tea does?

I ended up using a Hong Ni Yixing for lightly oxidized Taiwanese oolongs. The shape, weight, and clay thickness seemed to make a bigger difference than the type of clay. The one I chose is a three-footed pot, which allows for a rounded instead of flat bottom. This provides better air circulation and cooling because it keeps the bottom of the pot off of the counter surface...

Hongni is next anti-porous type next to Zhuni, seeing you chosen Hongni for light-Oolong, would not be bad.
formula made is Zhuni > Hongni > Heini > Zini > Liuni > Qin Shui ni and this formula was not made by me, but tea enthusiasts' confirmed opinion over numerous brewing.

This also allows you to think size of particle filtered during clay manufacturing process. 30 holes, 60 holes, 100 holes is standard size and 30 holes means a net that has 30 holes to filter clay, so 30 holes made out particle would be twice more bigger than 60 holes made out particle. But Zhuni, cannot be allowed to be filtered to those nets cos it's born with so small particles that wouldn't be left on even 100-hole nets. So you might give it a try on Zhuni next time.

Tea opinion is personal so it has to keep personal, too. But if you feel clay doesn't not matter so much than other things, you have to at least try brewing in Liuni pot, Qin Shui ni pot, yixing-factory owned vintage clays, pots made with 30-holes, 100-holes or other aged clay-made pots.

I guess opinions vary even within a country or region, as I've heard Taiwanese recommend both compressed and uncompressed round Yixings for the high mountain oolongs. This may be because each leaf-bud-leaf combination is rolled into a single ball, requiring extra room to expand..

Right, smaller leaves requires smaller width of pot. That's what 'tall' size went for, and tall pots tend to have taller lids too that might give more space for the heat to cool down.

To get the best from green tea in a gaiwan requires the same consideration as getting the best from a given tea in an Yixing teapot. Gaiwans vary very much from one to another, and care is required in choosing one. I have brewed lighter teas in two different Jing De Zhen gaiwans. One gave very poor results while the other gave superior results. I see no reason why an Yixing can't be specifically made for lighter teas and perform well with them, the same way a poorly designed gaiwan will give poor results with the same tea.

Well, Gaiwan is a porcelain so it comes out glazed, which is not porous at all while Yixing's porousness can differ even by clay, holes of filtering so how can you say the same thing between them? Reasons why Yixing doesn't fit for green and white, I've already stated previous post then you need to oppose in reasonable manner rather than saying 'oh I don't understand'..'umm tastes on MY experience are different'..

Have a good day.

[britt]

britt, frankly, I've never heard such Oolong that does not go thru the roasting process exists, if not roasted then how else do you think it will kill oxidation? Slow-killing the way White tea does?.

Fermentation and roasting are how the oolongs are specified at the vendor where I purchase them. Fermentation does not require roasting. 2008 Ali-Shan Winter Petals are listed as 15% fermentation and no roasting. Li-Shan Tsui Feng is also listed as 15% fermentation and no roasting. Both are soft-stem oolongs and both are very green in color. This may be unique to the Taiwanese High Mountain oolongs.

Hongni is next anti-porous type next to Zhuni, seeing you chosen Hongni for light-Oolong, would not be bad.
formula made is Zhuni > Hongni > Heini > Zini > Liuni > Qin Shui ni and this formula was not made by me, but tea enthusiasts' confirmed opinion over numerous brewing.

...So you might give it a try on Zhuni next time...

This information is appreciated; thanks. I will try zhuni if I have the opportunity as long as the shape, weight, size etc. appear to be adequate for this type of tea.

Well, Gaiwan is a porcelain so it comes out glazed, which is not porous at all while Yixing's porousness can differ even by clay, holes of filtering so how can you say the same thing between them?

Not all gaiwans are 100% porcelain. Some are clay with a porcelain lining, and some may be pure clay.

What I was actually saying is that a blanket statement that green tea is unsuitable for Yixings but suitable for gaiwans is misleading. Shape, size, weight, and thickness are as important when selecting a gaiwan as they are when selecting an Yixing. Porcelain may take care of the porous clay issue, but the other factors are still relevant.

Thanks for the info you have provided.

[Salsero]

Fermentation and roasting are how the oolongs are specified at the vendor where I purchase them. Fermentation does not require roasting. 2008 Ali-Shan Winter Petals are listed as 15% fermentation and no roasting. Li-Shan Tsui Feng is also listed as 15% fermentation and no roasting. Both are soft-stem oolongs and both are very green in color. This may be unique to the Taiwanese High Mountain oolongs.

I have found the whole oxidation and roasting set of issues most confusing. As chrl42 points out, all tea has heat applied to kill green or stop the oxidation process at some point. On the other hand, some oolongs taste fresh, look green, and brew a green or green/yellow liquor, while others present a brown leaf color, don't taste green, and brewer a darker liquor. I get hopelessly confused about taste effects are due to oxidation (which generally seems to add red to the leaf and to the liquor) and which effects are due to roasting (which seems to add a brown color to the leaf and to the liquor).

I guess the solution to my dilemma is to drink more tea, and pay attention while I do so.

Britt, I wish more vendors gave the information yours does and did it consistently. So often it seems we are buying a pig in a poke. I do appreciate when the vendor makes an effort to label teas as to those two characteristics.

[britt]

I have found the whole oxidation and roasting set of issues most confusing.

Britt, I wish more vendors gave the information yours does and did it consistently. So often it seems we are buying a pig in a poke. I do appreciate when the vendor makes an effort to label teas as to those two characteristics.

Yes, Chinese and Taiwanese tea and teapots get very confusing. Much more so, IMO, than Japanese tea and teaware. I'm only about a year into each, so I don't know very much about either. I rely on forums like this as well as blogs from those who have much more experience than I do to try to educate myself. But even those with experience differ in opinion from one another. I guess that's why tea is as much an art as a science.

The vendor I referred to was Guang of Hou De Asian. I will check his blog later to see if there is any more info on this subject. If not, maybe I can e-mail Guang directly.

[chrl42]

Fermentation and roasting are how the oolongs are specified at the vendor where I purchase them. Fermentation does not require roasting. 2008 Ali-Shan Winter Petals are listed as 15% fermentation and no roasting. Li-Shan Tsui Feng is also listed as 15% fermentation and no roasting. Both are soft-stem oolongs and both are very green in color. This may be unique to the Taiwanese High Mountain oolongs.

When fermention is applied before roasting, it's called 'Puerh'. So it should taste different year by year then however Oolongs do not.
And so-called aged Oolong on the market should go under Hong Bei (kind of heating) process every yr not to lose its flavor. However Oolongs just stored for 10yr will end up with plain taste with loss of aroma.

I've also checked out process method on High-mountain Oolong and from what I found out,

Gao Shan(high-mountain) Oolongs: plucked leaves - sun-drying - drying - roasting - handling - fire-drying - 2nd fire-drying

Not all gaiwans are 100% porcelain. Some are clay with a porcelain lining, and some may be pure clay.

What I was actually saying is that a blanket statement that green tea is unsuitable for Yixings but suitable for gaiwans is misleading. Shape, size, weight, and thickness are as important when selecting a gaiwan as they are when selecting an Yixing. Porcelain may take care of the porous clay issue, but the other factors are still relevant.

Thanks for the info you have provided.

Not all gaiwans are porcelain, true. But what matters as I stated is 'glaze'.

Yixing teapot is not glazed, so a clay functions as 'tea spoon' with numerous far infrared rays. But glaze is mixture of a homogenous silicate that functions chemically, physically as 'glass'. Its holes are too small that block any type of air or liquor.

So glazed yixing teapots will have on teas with no chemical functioning.

With that said, and my previous posts, how can you say it's 'blanket' statement since this is not MY opinion but from general knowledge among tea enthusiasts in China with lots of research, tasting and experience done over decades?

[britt]

Not all gaiwans are porcelain, true. But what matters as I stated is 'glaze'.

What matters is everything, not just glazed versus unglazed. A glazed pot or gaiwan does not eliminate the need to consider other factors that also affect the taste of tea brewed in that particular vessel. These additional factors include shape, size, weight, and thickness and are as important when selecting a gaiwan as they are when selecting an Yixing.

Porcelain eliminates the porous issue, but the other factors are still relevant. They all contribute to the taste of tea. I've stated this several times, but you avoid these points and return to the glazed versus unglazed issue each time.

[Smells_Familiar]

Not all gaiwans are porcelain, true. But what matters as I stated is 'glaze'.

What matters is everything, not just glazed versus unglazed. A glazed pot or gaiwan does not eliminate the need to consider other factors that also affect the taste of tea brewed in that particular vessel. These additional factors include shape, size, weight, and thickness and are as important when selecting a gaiwan as they are when selecting an Yixing.

Porcelain eliminates the porous issue, but the other factors are still relevant. They all contribute to the taste of tea. I've stated this several times, but you avoid these points and return to the glazed versus unglazed issue each time.

Britt, I don't think that chrl42 is saying the other physical qualities of giawans are unimportant. Chrl42 seems to be addressing the assertion in your post that a yixing pot could be matched with green or white tea if the construction of the pot was thin enough/dense enough/shaped just right. I think chrl42 is saying that no yixing pot is best for the most delicate teas (green, white) no matter the dimensions, because of the inherent porous nature of the clay, even zhuni. He's saying giawan is inherently better because of the non-porous surface of porcelain.
He's not addressing the other dimensional specifications and how they affect tea because his argument is focused on why yixing would not be suitable for brewing green or white tea. At least that's how I interpret your conversation.

peace

[britt]

Britt, I don't think that chrl42 is saying the other physical qualities of giawans are unimportant. .....He's not addressing the other dimensional specifications and how they affect tea because his argument is focused on why yixing would not be suitable for brewing green or white tea. At least that's how I interpret your conversation. peace

Thanks for the interpretation; it makes sense.

So far I have not found an Yixing that is suitable for green tea. However, a vendor that I trust very much was selling one that he claimed was suitable for green and white tea. I should have grabbed it, then we'd know for sure! Maybe it's fortunate that someone beat me to it.

Green tea does taste great in the gaiwan I recently purchased, no doubt about it. It is extremely light and thin. Previous gaiwans ranged from poor to pretty good.