Oolong classification

[olivierco]

This would be hard to do as many oolongs IMHO taste the same, especially Taiwanese oolongs. IMHO I think it is difficult to describe oolongs with any degree of accuracy because a TQY will at times taste different from someone elses TQY. It is totally dependant on how the farmer processes it. I mean there are general style profiles that can be used as a guide like Dancong will taste like peaches, Rou Gui like cinnamon, Jinxuan has a creaminess. However, even vendors are careful not to provide too much description and will use words such as: toasty, floral, fresh, mild etc. For the most part, I feel they classify oolongs according to color more than taste - more so in light oolongs. Needless to say it is a big mess! This doesn't even bring into account the concepts of grade and winter vs spring! I think it is less difficult to try to classify them by the obvious - light fire, Heavy fire, region and cultivar such as Jade or Jinxuan etc. Again, to try to classify them by taste seem somewhat futle for me atleast as everyone's palate is different. I myself have a hard time distinguishing between Japanese greens. Of course an expert can tell the difference but I am not there yet. They all seem to taste the same. I don't seem to be cynical, its just that the more I taste and the more I learn the more I don't know! There are just so many variables, it is so intimidating! Frankly, I think one of my problems is that I am starting to approach tea more academically and not just drink and enjoy.

I know it is a difficult task, that is precisely the reason why I posted in ITD.

[hop_goblin]

This would be hard to do as many oolongs IMHO taste the same, especially Taiwanese oolongs. IMHO I think it is difficult to describe oolongs with any degree of accuracy because a TQY will at times taste different from someone elses TQY. It is totally dependant on how the farmer processes it. I mean there are general style profiles that can be used as a guide like Dancong will taste like peaches, Rou Gui like cinnamon, Jinxuan has a creaminess. However, even vendors are careful not to provide too much description and will use words such as: toasty, floral, fresh, mild etc. For the most part, I feel they classify oolongs according to color more than taste - more so in light oolongs. Needless to say it is a big mess! This doesn't even bring into account the concepts of grade and winter vs spring! I think it is less difficult to try to classify them by the obvious - light fire, Heavy fire, region and cultivar such as Jade or Jinxuan etc. Again, to try to classify them by taste seem somewhat futle for me atleast as everyone's palate is different. I myself have a hard time distinguishing between Japanese greens. Of course an expert can tell the difference but I am not there yet. They all seem to taste the same. I don't seem to be cynical, its just that the more I taste and the more I learn the more I don't know! There are just so many variables, it is so intimidating! Frankly, I think one of my problems is that I am starting to approach tea more academically and not just drink and enjoy.

I know it is a difficult task, that is precisely the reason why I posted in ITD.

Perhaps if people would be willing to volunteer to take on a region, cultivar, style and divide up the work it may help.

[Salsero]

Olivierco,

I put together a little spreadsheet of oolongs a couple years ago. It ranks them from lightest oxidation (bao zhong) to darkest oxidation (bai hao) with notes and alternate names along the way. It is very amateurish and I am sure it is full of errors, but it might help orient you a bit. I would be happy to send it to you via email if you are interested. I often refer to it when I get confused. Mostly it is based on the Wikipedia info from back then, with additional little notes and updates I have made when I have thought about it.

Even with a reference, however, it seems that virtually every oolong can be roasted more or less and even oxidized more of less within a range, so it may be least standardized class of tea.

Let me know if you are interested.

[Proinsias]

Your organizational skillz frighten me Salsero.

[MarshalN]

Salsero is pretty much correct here -- almost anything can be made with high or low oxidation/roasting, which makes the whole thing a rather big mess. I can send you two teas that are both tieguanyin and you won't recognize anything in them as being similar, and this is pretty much true for most oolongs, whatever name they're called.

So you're not going to be able to go "oh, a tieguanyin should taste like this" because you have to take into account things like roasting -- which is quite variable. The difference between a roasted and a very lightly (or unroasted) tieguanyin is like the difference between hojicha and sencha .... just not the same thing.

[Proinsias]

Would it be worth using the monthly tea tastings as opportunities not for just tasting notes but for people to share as much, interesting, info as possible on the tea provided, well not just that particular tea but many of the general labels that apply to it as well?

I'm thinking this month's might be a little tricky, although it may just be me with next to no knowledge of Georgian tea. I'm more thinking of the wuyi or pu-erh tasting threads as hives of knowledge on these types of teas complete with links to favourite teachat posts, blog posts, wikicha, wikipedia and of course some good humoured disagreement. Links to stories of Eisai bringing tea to Japan, a random off the head example, would be nice to find in the Shincha tasting thread.

Sort of like the classifying oolong thread only more like: the what do we all know about what we're all drinking? thread.

Or am I taking things too far?

[scruffmcgruff]

Well, this is kind of why brandon set up wikiCHA. It's still a great resource, but it could still be much better. A second wave of activity would be great, the only problem is motivation, heh.

[Victoria]

Well I guess I need to weigh in - but I have to tell you after looking at this thread and reading the posts and trying to formulate a direction in my mind, I'm no further along than I was to start. Oolongs are so varied and there are so many, and so many levels of oxidation and roasting, and growing areas. Old trees, new plants, rock teas, high elevation, low elevations. And then there is covered, uncovered, thick leaves, thin leaves, bud, tips, stems - and not to mention all the Chinese names, Twaiwan names then the made up names and changed names between the grower and the vendors. Wow.

[hop_goblin]

Salsero is pretty much correct here -- almost anything can be made with high or low oxidation/roasting, which makes the whole thing a rather big mess. I can send you two teas that are both tieguanyin and you won't recognize anything in them as being similar, and this is pretty much true for most oolongs, whatever name they're called.

So you're not going to be able to go "oh, a tieguanyin should taste like this" because you have to take into account things like roasting -- which is quite variable. The difference between a roasted and a very lightly (or unroasted) tieguanyin is like the difference between hojicha and sencha .... just not the same thing.

Precisely! Exactly what I was trying to get across. It's all in the hands of the tea maker. I even gave the same TGY example as well. Big mess.

[olivierco]

Olivierco,

I put together a little spreadsheet of oolongs a couple years ago. It ranks them from lightest oxidation (bao zhong) to darkest oxidation (bai hao) with notes and alternate names along the way. It is very amateurish and I am sure it is full of errors, but it might help orient you a bit. I would be happy to send it to you via email if you are interested. I often refer to it when I get confused. Mostly it is based on the Wikipedia info from back then, with additional little notes and updates I have made when I have thought about it.

Even with a reference, however, it seems that virtually every oolong can be roasted more or less and even oxidized more of less within a range, so it may be least standardized class of tea.

Let me know if you are interested.

Thanks Salsero. I PM you my email address.