Do the Olympics mean more to you?

[Chip]

No probs, Chamekke. Still TeaBuds.

Still yes.

[Sydney]

I couldn't care less about the Olympics, so nothing has changed for me.

[Salsero]

I just wanted to add that I do regret the abrasive tone of my posting above. My remarks were NOT meant as a personal comment on anyone, but it sure may have sounded like it. For this, I apologize unreservedly.

Whatever political- or tea-related differences we may have, I regard everyone here as a friend.

Oh, come on, get nasty for once!

[chrl42]

Chip, since you posted on the heels of my answer (which was intended to be tactfully short), I think I must respond.

No, the Olympics do not mean more to me because it's in China and China was the first to discover tea.

I love Chinese classical music and have been interested in Chinese arts, culture, and history for as long as I can remember. My opposition to China's oppressive state apparatus is just that: opposition to the way it hurts its people, especially the poorest and most powerless. This does not imply an aversion to Chinese people or its culture, quite the reverse. That is why I find the circumstances surrounding these Olympics particularly odious. I have seen too much footage of too many elderly Chinese, weeping as they tell how they were forced from their humble Beijing homes, often with little or no reimbursement, to make way for the grand Olympic facilities. Unknown thousands, if not tens of thousands, cast into homelessness in their old age. This is not the traditional culture of China, it is an abomination.

And that is a fraction of what I might say. So I hope you are not implying that people who oppose the Olympics are necessarily anti-Chinese. Some of us oppose the glossy spectacle because it seems to make some people (and I don't mean Chip or anyone else on this forum - I am speaking more generally) forget how odious China's government actually is, and the harm it's doing its own people. Setting aside the question of the welfare of the people of Tibet, Darfur, Burma...

If you think this is too political, please feel free to delete it. I am sure it is probably not welcome.

That heart-weeping comments, I salute your point.

But from my observation, the Chinese people, the most patriotic people on earth. I mean both politicians and people. It's undeniable some of laws looks crazy(and America too, right?) but what holds the nation nonethless is patriotism. We Korean call that Zhong Hua Zhu Yi, sinocentrism. Believing THEY are the centor of world or master race as Hitler would call it. It's some kind of Han Chinese pride that's been held over 2000 yrs and would not likely to be changed in a moment. Biggest wealth gap, bribery among officials, harsh treatment from public police are what gets anulled by thinking they are ONE.

But it's also a lot exeggarated by media about China, US media has been always negative to Chinese news (don't forget the poll showed Americans were the most positive in regarding economy expending China as a threat)

And Tibet..besides their claiming that Tibel has been part of China since Tang dynasty, one reason China can't free Tibet is because there are other 55 ethnic minorities. Simply speaking, if they free Tibet then other ethnic minorities will claim for freedom. It means it literally is collapsing of China. Geographically and historically (some of dynasties were ruled by ethnic minorities). Positive for them is lots of ethnic races got along about fine with the goverment, but not religious ones (tibetans, ugrians)..

My point is there is a complex understanding China and its people. Communism, merchantship, taoistic optimism, sinocentrism and a lot make these people the most difficult to apprehend.

[Salsero]

Thanks, Charl42, for giving us a point of view and some insights that we don't often hear in the USA. I think most Americans don't even know about the minority groups in China or the humiliation some Chinese still feel about the European invasions, Opium Wars, and colonialism.

[hop_goblin]

The Olympics has lost its fun since the ending of the cold war.

[Riene]

*laughs* It's just not as fun when there's not the USSR to beat, true!

But I'm with Padre on this one. I really couldn't care less about sports, so whatever.

[Space Samurai]

And Tibet..besides their claiming that Tibel has been part of China since Tang dynasty, one reason China can't free Tibet is because there are other 55 ethnic minorities. Simply speaking, if they free Tibet then other ethnic minorities will claim for freedom. It means it literally is collapsing of China. Geographically and historically (some of dynasties were ruled by ethnic minorities). Positive for them is lots of ethnic races got along about fine with the goverment, but not religious ones (tibetans, ugrians).

I've heard this before. Perhaps it's my just bias since I grew up in a democracy, but not granting one group freedom, becuase then you'll just have to give other people freedom, too, doesn't sound right to me.

[Salsero]

I've heard this before. Perhaps it's my just bias since I grew up in a democracy, but not granting one group freedom, becuase then you'll just have to give other people freedom, too, doesn't sound right to me.

Oh, Space, I don't think Chrl42 is apologizing for the Chinese government or saying they are right, just explaining their realpolitik rationale, the logic behind the repression. That doesn't make it right, just expedient from their point of view.

[chrl42]

And Tibet..besides their claiming that Tibel has been part of China since Tang dynasty, one reason China can't free Tibet is because there are other 55 ethnic minorities. Simply speaking, if they free Tibet then other ethnic minorities will claim for freedom. It means it literally is collapsing of China. Geographically and historically (some of dynasties were ruled by ethnic minorities). Positive for them is lots of ethnic races got along about fine with the goverment, but not religious ones (tibetans, ugrians).

I've heard this before. Perhaps it's my just bias since I grew up in a democracy, but not granting one group freedom, becuase then you'll just have to give other people freedom, too, doesn't sound right to me.

Geological or ethnic debate regarding history can be as complicated as red indians to israelis/palestanian and Chinese/tibetan.

By the way, I didn't support any action the Chinese goverment on Tibet I just mentioned the goverment is VERY afraid of this ethnic minority issue..

[Space Samurai]

Geological or ethnic debate regarding history can be as complicated as red indians to israelis/palestanian and Chinese/tibetan.

By the way, I didn't support any action the Chinese goverment on Tibet I just mentioned the goverment is VERY afraid of this ethnic minority issue..

The Government is VERY afraid of losing power. Of losing control.

[Proinsias]

I live in Glasgow, Scotland. It has a huge Irish population, I'm a bit Irish, the biggest marches and strongest feelings outside of Ireland surrounding the north/south Irish divide are here. Rebel music is played in many drinking establishments. I've heard arguments for each side since I was very young.

Long and short of this is: I've been living fairly closely alongside this issue all my life and know many people involved in both sides of the debate, I still have no idea who is right and who is wrong or what should be done.

I'm not about to start commenting on the situation in Tibet when I know even less about the set up of the government there than I do about the US.

It's easy to say the Chinese government is mean and we should free Tibet, the Dalai Lama can't be wrong, but I get the feeling things are a little more complicated than that.

[Salsero]

...I get the feeling things are a little more complicated than that...

And the biggest complication is that the emotions run so hot on both sides.

[Chip]

...I get the feeling things are a little more complicated than that...

And the biggest complication is that the emotions run so hot on both sides.

Even half a world away.

[Michael_C]

I don't watch the olympics, but the most interesting thing about them in general is they show a stark contrast between people and governments. As much as our governments try to separate us, teach us to mistrust other races and cultures, beat war drums and proclaim our scrap of soil on this planet as the best of all possible worlds to the exclusion of all else, it's nice to see ordinary people just coming together and smiling, listening to music and partying...while the statesmen are in their special seating with contingents of bodyguards.