Oolong novice seeks wisdom

[teaguy]

Hey Winston! Hey Tenuki! Remember me? Don't know what happened to that other site, but it seems to have closed down. Good to see you're still around.

If I may add a comment to the discussion - Vulture is on the right track. It's very misleading to say 'all tea comes from the same plant' - that's like saying all wines come from the same plant, or all coffee comes from the same plant. Camillia senensis is a genus (or family, or whatever they call it). Within the family there is tremendous variation. We're all human, after all, but look how varied our languages, cultures, etc. are.

Processing plays a big part in creating the flavor of a tea, but everything starts with the leaf. Why isn't India famous for oolong tea? The climate, soil, and plants are more suited to producing black teas. Processing Assam leaf using oolong techniques won't produce a very good tea.

Farmers determine the best plants to grow in their areas. Producers determine the most suitable tea to process from the leaf. Consumers determine the best brewing methods that work for them. There is a lot of variation at each step of the process, which is what makes tea so fascinating.

[wyardley]

Processing plays a big part in creating the flavor of a tea, but everything starts with the leaf. Why isn't India famous for oolong tea? The climate, soil, and plants are more suited to producing black teas. Processing Assam leaf using oolong techniques won't produce a very good tea.

I think a lot of folks like the newer style darjeelings, which are essentially oolongs, no?

In any event, given that farmers and teamasters in China and Taiwan have a lot of years (and a lot of generations) of experience processing tea, that it's not just the types of teas that are produced there are more suitable to making oolongs, but rather that they have the skills and technology to make them.

[teaguy]

I haven't seen the darjeelings you're referring to, so I'd have to investigate further before commenting on that (although my intuition would be, "no, they're not the same".

Tea plants are just like the farmers you mention - they've been in a particular area for generations and generations, and have developed different characteristics. Taiwan's oolong teas came from the Wuyi rock teas of Fujian. While there are still some similarities in their 'personalities', the experts I've spoken with would not consider them 'the same plants' at all - more like, 'distant cousins'.

For example, 2 popular oolongs in Taiwan are Jin Hsuen and Sz Ji Chwun. In the past few years, less Jin Hsuen has been produced. The reason is that the Jin Hsuen tea plants can only be picked 3-4 times a year, while the Sz Ji Chwun can be picked 5-6 times a year because the plants grow faster and produce more leaves per bush. This makes Sz Ji Chwun more profitable, so a lot of farmers are replanting their fields (both teas are grown in similar areas & climates). The actual production process is nearly identical, except for small differences in the oxidization and roasting, but the difference in flavor comes primarily from the genetic differences in the plants themselves.

[tjkoko_off]

I've always found oolongs characterized by a mellow pungency. While I'm still working on a suitable brew process for my Bai Hao, achieving an acceptable brew for TKY has been more than forthcoming.

[teaguy]

How are you brewing the TKY, and where is it from?

I've gotten really hooked on TKY over the past year, and am discovering a wide range of varieties that are wonderful.

TKY seems to work best when brewed with high temp water (bring to a boil, then let it cool just slightly before brewing - about 95-98C. Don't re-boil the water for each round; the temperature needs to come down a bit as the steeping time increases. Use a bit more leaf than you would for rolled oolongs, as the repeated roasting of TKY prevents the leaf from fully opening, even after multiple infusions. We usually get 6-8 rounds per pot or gaiwan, depending on the quality.

[ABx]

How are you brewing the TKY, and where is it from?

I've gotten really hooked on TKY over the past year, and am discovering a wide range of varieties that are wonderful.

TKY seems to work best when brewed with high temp water (bring to a boil, then let it cool just slightly before brewing - about 95-98C. Don't re-boil the water for each round; the temperature needs to come down a bit as the steeping time increases. Use a bit more leaf than you would for rolled oolongs, as the repeated roasting of TKY prevents the leaf from fully opening, even after multiple infusions. We usually get 6-8 rounds per pot or gaiwan, depending on the quality.

tjkoko can correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that he really did mean "more than forthcoming" - as in "While I've been having some trouble with bai hao, TGY has been great."

tjkoko: I wouldn't put too much effort into bai hao unless you can really tell that you're almost there. A lot of us find bai hao to be pretty lackluster. It's mainly for black tea drinkers (and was apparently made in association with the brits back "in the day").

[teaguy]

I see. I'll also wait for tjkoko to clarify what was meant.

On another note, ABx, if you find Bai Hao to be 'lackluster', perhaps I need to arrange to send you a sample? I've been brewing it a fair bit lately, and am quite happy with the quality.

[ABx]

I've had some that was really quite nice, such as Stephane's "Perfect" Bai Hao. I could easily see the appeal, and can very much appreciate it's fine qualities, but I simply prefer wulong with lower oxidation. It's just too close to a red tea for my tastes. I've encountered a fair number of others that found the same. Thanks for the offer, though

[TIM]

I haven't seen the darjeelings you're referring to, so I'd have to investigate further before commenting on that (although my intuition would be, "no, they're not the same".

ENIGMA DARJEELING OOLONG
http://thedarjeelingtealady.com/tea/ind ... bde2746557

FYI. A Djling processed by Taiwanese tea master.

[gingkoseto]

For example, 2 popular oolongs in Taiwan are Jin Hsuen and Sz Ji Chwun. In the past few years, less Jin Hsuen has been produced. The reason is that the Jin Hsuen tea plants can only be picked 3-4 times a year, while the Sz Ji Chwun can be picked 5-6 times a year because the plants grow faster and produce more leaves per bush. This makes Sz Ji Chwun more profitable, so a lot of farmers are replanting their fields (both teas are grown in similar areas & climates). The actual production process is nearly identical, except for small differences in the oxidization and roasting, but the difference in flavor comes primarily from the genetic differences in the plants themselves.

Another story how market manipulates production! Sadly it happens a lot in tea, chocolate, coffee and other things. I love Jin Hsuen a lot for its milky buttery flavor.

I think, it doesn't help either that many vendors don't mention variety names when they sell Taiwan high mountain oolong. Difference between Jin Hsuen and Sz Ji Chwun from same region is a lot bigger than difference between Jin Hsuen of different regions. Without mentioning the variety names but only the region names in product description, it is misleading as well as undermining market for "less profitable" varieties.

[Salsero]

Difference between Jin Hsuen and Sz Ji Chwun from same region is a lot bigger than difference between Jin Hsuen of different regions.

I think these issues emphasize how totally we depend on reliable vendors, word of mouth, and our own tasting experience.

[teaguy]

All true, all true. At least Jin Hsuen and Sz Ji Chwun (and Tsuey Yu) are more generally known varieties that originate from specific cultivars.

Often shops here just call everything oolong, and are not sure (or won't say) what specific region it is from, so it's very hit or miss.

[xuancheng]

My first reaction: Does this tea really come from the same plant that gives us greens and whites?

Of course you already know the answer to this, all true tea comes from one species of plant. What I find most different about Oolong tea, and I'm surprised no one else mentioned this, is the leaves used to make Oolong tea.

Except for Bai Hao or Dongfang Meiren the shoots are allowed to grow out for another week or so before they are harvested when making Oolong. Oolong leaves would not make good green or white tea, and the very tender buds and day old leaves used for greens and whites in general won't stand up to oolong processing.

...Jin Hsuen and Sz Ji Chwun (and Tsuey Yu)...

Just out of curiosity what romanization are you using? is that Gwoyeu Romtzyh? I don't recognize it.

[teaguy]

Hi Trey!

Same species, yes, BUT tea plants used for any specific tea have distinct differences from other tea plants - that's why they're used to make different teas in the first place, and a big part of why different teas (for example within the oolong family) have different tastes. It's a gross oversimplification to just say 'all tea comes from the same plant - only the process is different.'

I don't use the 'Gwoyeu Romtzyh' - there are 3-4 systems haphazardly used around Taiwan, and these spellings are the ones my Tea Master uses. Can't really say which one, or even if they're the same.

[tjkoko_off]

Teaguy stated:

I see. I'll also wait for tjkoko to clarify what was meant.

On another note, ABx, if you find Bai Hao to be 'lackluster', perhaps I need to arrange to send you a sample? I've been brewing it a fair bit lately, and am quite happy with the quality.

I found that achieving a good brew with TKY is much easier than with Bai Hao. With TKY, I pour a few cc's of water over the leaves just after it boils and without allowing it to cool down. Following the initial pour, I allow the water to drop to brewing temperature where I then pour a suitable amount over the leaves. Allow the brew to set for some specified time prior to dispensing.

That initial little amount of water poured over the dry, rolled leaves is not thrown away. It remains in the pot to be mixed in with the final brew.

EDIT: my TKY is gotten from Peet's Coffees and Teas in Berkeley, CA.