Tasting Da Hong Pao

[Herb_Master]

Like your posts Herb Master.

On variance in taste and aroma from session to session I would challenge you to start tracking the temp, relative humidity and barometric pressure for each session as well as an internal bio check, ie, how vivid are aromas and tastes in general for me today.

The drinker of the tea is a huge variable, as are the weather conditions.

This is a good one - you have to be tenacious to get to grips with all of this, on top water temperature, type of brewing vessel, thickness / inherent qualities of brewing vessel (material, rate of heat loss etc), size of vessel, age of leaves, season of pluck, level of oxidation, level of roast, length of steep, leaf occupancy and density in vessel, brokenness of leaf - and maybe more.

Temperature and Relative Humidity seem straightforward.

But Barometers ?
There are different types, not just Aneroid and Mercury, Gallileo or Goethe but
in addition to many attractive wall mounted style ones some rather ugly desk type electronic calculator look a likes some with continuous print facilities.

I'd rather like a modern day ACCURATE one to back up a 200 year old family heirloom which I suspect is not totally reliable (Great, great, great grandfather was captain of the ship it was rescued from)[I think he was one of the men responsible for throwing John Paul Jones out, our loss your gain maybe](AND it was all about taxation of tea anyway.

However I would prefer one of the nice looking ones that Salsero would be proud to have as a backdrop to some of his photos. Noting the reading scales have varying degrees of measurement according to the barometer you choose, some just say just say Fair,Change,Storm etc, some have Millibar scakles, some have inches of mercury and so on.

I therefore googled on how to interpret barometer readings. Apart from noting the importance of temperature, and whether in or out of direct sunlight - they all seem to suggest that the actual reading is not important, but that it is the change in reading over a period of hours that is important. But they all assume you want to use it for weather forecasting.

Can you tell me how best to use a barometer for taking tasting tea notes, in this case the absolute pressure may be more important than the relative change in pressure.

Or do you think a quickly rising pressure of 1036.0 millibars would make the tea taste different to a quickly falling pressure of 1036.0. In which case I may have to settle for an electronic one with printer and remember to switch it on 6 hours before tea trials. If not has anyone spotted any superbly attractive barometers out there.

[Herb_Master]

I thought I caught a bleary eyed response at 4am before I went to bed.
Not there now, but I have a site open, that it referenced, with report for sale which I have not ordered because I don't read french too well.

The English summary suggests I don't need to worry to much about pressure changes, maybe just absolutes!

In conclusion, environmental conditions modulate the sense of smell, and may, consecutively, influence results from olfactory tests.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20067889

Consequently I may go for something likw this
http://www.fccprecision.co.uk/banjo-bar ... 545mm.html
or this

http://www.h-s.co.uk/barometers_and_the ... wood_3093#

or this
http://www.weather-station-products.co. ... 47-52.html

[chrl42]

Herb_Master, no offense.

First, your Yixing..not trustful. Using chemical ingredient-contained or none-Yixing clay-used pot can be even worse off than trying with Gaiwan. Zhu Rui Qing (朱瑞靑 perhaps?), never heard of her. In China, it's normal to cite the name of potter so we can search on Yixing goverment-running website and also normal to cite the clay of pot, name of pot etc..

It's tricky indeed, I mean it's tricky in China and how trickier in western is no questionable. That's why I would always recommend Gaiwan if Yixing is not coming from very trustful website. Yixing is not a toy to fool around cos original Yixing clay went explicit long ago. And using none-Yixing clay is not a good reason to use Yixing, just a mud.


Second is tea of course. Brewing more famous tea requires more attention. It's like comparing 30-dollar-Long Jing to same priced Zhu Ye Qing. The quality can't be the same cos demand is not equal.

I already noted the areas of Wuyi in Chinese, that is to compare with the packages.

And if brewing normal priced Wuyi Yancha, it's safer to start with Shuixian or Rougui. Cos there are large farms at lower altitude of Wuyi Shan growing them. And leaf shape is not a measurement for Wuyi Yancha. I've seen this trend that price goes (from low)

bad shaped machine-made farm tea
good shaped machine-made farm tea
bad shaped hand-made tea from middle altitude
good shaped hand-made tea from middle altitude
bad shaped Zhengyan
good shaped Zhengyan

And sometimes good farm teas can kick aweful hand-made teas ass. Cos Wuyi Yancha is trickier as well.

[ABx]

Herb_Master: Honestly, I wouldn't worry about things like weather right now - trying to keep too many things in mind when you're new will not do you any favors. There are many many things that can affect your tea, even your mood (which likely changes how well you brew), so right now it's better to just focus on what your doing when you make tea.

Just keep in mind what I said in your other thread: just keep trying teas and teaware and don't draw any conclusions until you've had lots of experience (and even then...). If you have a hard time with some teas, then just come back to them another day. Once you have more experience you'll be able to get a sense of whether there's more to a tea than what you're getting from it, even if you're new to it.

[Herb_Master]

Herb_Master, no offense.

First, your Yixing..not trustful. Using chemical ingredient-contained or none-Yixing clay-used pot can be even worse off than trying with Gaiwan. Zhu Rui Qing (朱瑞靑 perhaps?), never heard of her. In China, it's normal to cite the name of potter so we can search on Yixing goverment-running website and also normal to cite the clay of pot, name of pot etc..

It's tricky indeed, I mean it's tricky in China and how trickier in western is no questionable. That's why I would always recommend Gaiwan if Yixing is not coming from very trustful website. Yixing is not a toy to fool around cos original Yixing clay went explicit long ago. And using none-Yixing clay is not a good reason to use Yixing, just a mud.


Second is tea of course. Brewing more famous tea requires more attention. It's like comparing 30-dollar-Long Jing to same priced Zhu Ye Qing. The quality can't be the same cos demand is not equal.

I already noted the areas of Wuyi in Chinese, that is to compare with the packages.

And if brewing normal priced Wuyi Yancha, it's safer to start with Shuixian or Rougui. Cos there are large farms at lower altitude of Wuyi Shan growing them. And leaf shape is not a measurement for Wuyi Yancha. I've seen this trend that price goes (from low)

bad shaped machine-made farm tea
good shaped machine-made farm tea
bad shaped hand-made tea from middle altitude
good shaped hand-made tea from middle altitude
bad shaped Zhengyan
good shaped Zhengyan

And sometimes good farm teas can kick aweful hand-made teas ass. Cos Wuyi Yancha is trickier as well.

Thanks for your info and advice. I have just begun my journey along the use of Gaiwans, and of course will be trying my Wuyis, Anxis and Taiwans with them, but I shall continue to use the Pots also. I love the aesthetics of nearly all my Yixing pots (I have over 60) and have found some agreeably nice teas from the twenty that I have so far seasoned and used. As my tea journey continues I hope to increase my tea awareness skills and modify my tea making process accordingly.

Initially I expect to use Gaiwans more than Yixings for the Dan Congs, and teapots more than Gaiwans for my Wuyis, but as my journey develops I may find my preferences changing. I never expect to be settled on just one or the other, but every few months hope to revisit and re-appraise the same tea against a few different vessels/techniques.

I love your point about market forces of supply and demand forcing up the price of the more sought after tea varietals, and only wish there was some way of knowing the relative amounts of both supply and demand for all the varietals that crop up. I was surprised to see your inclusion of (mid-priced) Rou Gui in this argument, I thought Rou Gui was almost equal in status with the Si Da Ming Cong these days, and therefore suspected demand for it might be exceeding supply.

Your gradation of quality based on location and processing skills is fully understood but difficult to assess from most vendor's descriptions. It shall remain a dream of mine to locate the products of artisan farmers whose tea is indeed masterly, yet under appreciated so sill available for purchase.

But I shall continue to learn.

[TIM]

Xi Qiu, ok I will check it out cos I will be at MLD this week. However, over hundreds of vendor sell Wuyi from various sections, so don't get your hopes up

There seem to be too many vendors but information we get is too small, Puerh and Yixing is encyclopedia comparing to Wuyi. It's important cos quality and price differ a lot depending on what area of rock, what factory it is from.

So in hopes of gathering further info, some basic 101.

Grading Wuyi first needs to understand 3 categories. Zheng Yan Cha, Ban Yan Cha and Zhou Cha.

First, Zheng Yan Cha. The finest grade, grown on rock-surrounding area, 70km2 around the center of Wuyi Shan. Best of all is called Ming Yan Cha. Environment of this area belongs to tropical climate, 700m above sea level, averate temp 18C, rains over 200mm, average humidity 80%.

Areas of Zheng Yan Cha : 天心岩, 慧苑坑, 牛欄坑, 大坑口, 流香澗, 悟源澗

Second, Ban Yan Cha. Also called Dan Yan Cha. Grown on lower altitude than Zheng Yan Cha as larger farms mostly of soil than rock.

Areas of Ban Yan Cha : 靑獅岩, 碧石岩, 馬頭岩, 獅子口, 九曲溪

Third, Zhou Cha, farm tea. Even larger area 200m above sea level. North-west Zhou Cha is famous.

Areas of Zhou Cha : 崇溪, 九曲溪, 黃柏溪


I am sure more data and opinion are needed, and also heard Chinese goverment will be forwarding of grading (like Taiwan?), kinda doubtful without thinking about bribery or Guanxi

Adding one more main (Zheng Yan Cha) cliffs: 玉女峰 = jade lady summit. (shown in package)
Tasting this DHP from 2005 harvested in 09/05/2005.

Traditional Fired. comes in 2 vacuum packs of 7g each.

Orchid, soapy, dough crusty, metallic, floral and dhp distinctive aroma.
The box said: Wuyi mountain unique Summits 36, Cliffs 99. Each Summit and Cliffs produce it's own character, called Yan Cha.


1st-3rd

7th onwards.

[Salsero]

2 vacuum packs of 7g each

The young lady at the Chinese take out place by my office sometimes gives me TGY in these 7 gr vacuum packs. Is that a common way to find tea in China?

That is a LOT of leaf there, fearless one. For those of us who can't understand detail ... was it good?

[TIM]

2 vacuum packs of 7g each

The young lady at the Chinese take out place by my office sometimes gives me TGY in these 7 gr vacuum packs. Is that a common way to find tea in China?

That is a LOT of leaf there, fearless one. For those of us who can't understand detail ... was it good?

Sal- Vacuum pack started around 1997 in Taiwan then to Anxi China, later Wuyi and Dragonwell caught on. Its easy to change $$$ in a eatery, so they can bill you for it. 7gs package in Anxi are usually for competition or tasting, so to be fair. We used both packs, 14g total of the whole box.... imo, you have to full up the pot for any better yancha to taste the goodness : )

This is a high end commercial grade, ok tea, with the real DHP favorite (which is hard to come by) but nothing too selective/choicest.

[Herb_Master]

The box said: Wuyi mountain unique Summits 36, Cliffs 99. Each Summit and Cliffs produce it's own character, called Yan Cha.

That is an awful lot of prestige tea growing locations - 135 unique tea characters without descending to Ban Yan Cha

I love the colour of the 7th Infusion, after all the DanCong I have drunk in the last 3 weeks I had almost forgotten how deep Oolong could brew. I am itching to move on to Tie Guan Yin, but may just have to visit Wuyi again before I do

[chrl42]

2 vacuum packs of 7g each

The young lady at the Chinese take out place by my office sometimes gives me TGY in these 7 gr vacuum packs. Is that a common way to find tea in China?

That is a LOT of leaf there, fearless one. For those of us who can't understand detail ... was it good?

Sal, vacuum packs are often done with TGY here, some Wuyi sellers as well come with small packs tho I don't think it's necessary for Wuyi Yancha that much..

BTW, thnx for adding that up Tim.

[TIM]

2 vacuum packs of 7g each

The young lady at the Chinese take out place by my office sometimes gives me TGY in these 7 gr vacuum packs. Is that a common way to find tea in China?

That is a LOT of leaf there, fearless one. For those of us who can't understand detail ... was it good?

Sal, vacuum packs are often done with TGY here, some Wuyi sellers as well come with small packs tho I don't think it's necessary for Wuyi Yancha that much..

BTW, thnx for adding that up Tim.

Very Welcome Chrl42. We only have 14 on the list..... 121 more to go : )

[ABx]

imo, you have to full up the pot for any better yancha to taste the goodness : )

I've found the same. The Imperial DHP from Jing is pretty good at 50%, but at nearly 100% you get a really nice floral fragrance that just doesn't come through otherwise. Of course you have to be using a gaiwan or a pot with a very quick pour.

TIM: When you do that, do you use a particularly thin gaiwan, or would you use a thicker one (eg yixing) as well? My normal yixing pot for yancha doesn't have a fast enough pour to use that much leaf without going bitter (unless the leaf and the weather is right), and the same tends to happen in my yixing gaiwan. I've also found that the yixing gaiwan doesn't usually get hot enough to bring out the deeper flavors of some yancha. If the leaf has lots of little bits (roughly 40%-50%) then it usually turns out just fine in either the yixing pot or gaiwan when I fill it 50% or so. I do generally find, however, that the tiny gaiwan works out filled to the top very easily. I think it's easier to keep from going bitter when you're using a very small amount of leaf, regardless of the ratio.

Also what about pouring the water in the pot?

I've generally had pretty good results with this stuff up to about 50%-75% or so, but there are a few select teas that I always have problems with.

To others: if you can't handle the idea of using that much leaf, then it's best to just get a tiny gaiwan/pot When I brew a really expensive yancha for myself, I just use my ~50ml gaiwan. I suspect that it's made more for alter offerings than for actual use, but it works just fine

This is a high end commercial grade, ok tea, with the real DHP favorite (which is hard to come by) but nothing too selective/choicest.

I'm curious how you differentiate. I haven't had enough experience with DHP to really tell, although I've had some that tasted very much like Rou Gui. I've also had a few Bei Dou, though I have not encountered one that had the distinctive DHP aroma/flavor.

[TIM]

imo, you have to full up the pot for any better yancha to taste the goodness : )

I've found the same. The Imperial DHP from Jing is pretty good at 50%, but at nearly 100% you get a really nice floral fragrance that just doesn't come through otherwise. Of course you have to be using a gaiwan or a pot with a very quick pour.

TIM: When you do that, do you use a particularly thin gaiwan, or would you use a thicker one (eg yixing) as well? My normal yixing pot for yancha doesn't have a fast enough pour to use that much leaf without going bitter (unless the leaf and the weather is right), and the same tends to happen in my yixing gaiwan. I've also found that the yixing gaiwan doesn't usually get hot enough to bring out the deeper flavors of some yancha. If the leaf has lots of little bits (roughly 40%-50%) then it usually turns out just fine in either the yixing pot or gaiwan when I fill it 50% or so. I do generally find, however, that the tiny gaiwan works out filled to the top very easily. I think it's easier to keep from going bitter when you're using a very small amount of leaf, regardless of the ratio.

Also what about pouring the water in the pot?

I've generally had pretty good results with this stuff up to about 50%-75% or so, but there are a few select teas that I always have problems with.

To others: if you can't handle the idea of using that much leaf, then it's best to just get a tiny gaiwan/pot When I brew a really expensive yancha for myself, I just use my ~50ml gaiwan. I suspect that it's made more for alter offerings than for actual use, but it works just fine

This is a high end commercial grade, ok tea, with the real DHP favorite (which is hard to come by) but nothing too selective/choicest.

I'm curious how you differentiate. I haven't had enough experience with DHP to really tell, although I've had some that tasted very much like Rou Gui. I've also had a few Bei Dou, though I have not encountered one that had the distinctive DHP aroma/flavor.

I use thin gaiwan but of good quality bone china eg:
http://www.theteagallery.com/Medium_Gai ... a-gwnm.htm
The thicker the gaiwan, the more it burns. A good quality china will hold the heat well and creates a good pour.

My rule of thumb is, if a tea goes bitter and products a harsh mouth feel if it brewed strong.... how good could it be? Even if a good tea was filled to the top and steep for a min, yes, the first enter pt could be bitter, but not rough, bitter but sweet and soft. It's very easy to brew bad tea, imo, just use less tea and more water. That's how dim sum rest. do their tricks?

DHP has a very unique character. It is hard to explain the mouth feel and the aroma... you have to try it to remember it. I can explain RG, TLH, Bei Dou, Water turtle, Golden monk, but not DHP.... some older thought:
http://themandarinstea.blogspot.com/200 ... sting.html

[TIM]

This last week I have been drinking Da Hong Pao from 3 different sources.

At least I think the 3rd one is Da Hong Pao

The first was to finish off a canister that I bought in Petaling Jaya, Malaysia.



warm, friendly style, no astringency, mellow, woody and earthy

This Brand truly SUX!


Yakkkkk!

[Herb_Master]

This last week I have been drinking Da Hong Pao from 3 different sources.

At least I think the 3rd one is Da Hong Pao

The first was to finish off a canister that I bought in Petaling Jaya, Malaysia.



warm, friendly style, no astringency, mellow, woody and earthy

This Brand truly SUX!


Yakkkkk!

Maybe Chip could find a home for the tin!