The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

[rdl]

I have seen kumidashi cups and came to the (correct or incorrect?) conclusion that they take their name from this function and shape, but are used to serve tea in. Zencha.net and other vendors and the shops I've been in describe them as such.
How to tell the difference between a kumidashi cup used for hot water or for tea? I would like very much for someone with that knowledge to share it.

[blairswhitaker]

I have seen kumidashi cups and came to the (correct or incorrect?) conclusion that they take their name from this function and shape, but are used to serve tea in. Zencha.net and other vendors and the shops I've been in describe them as such.
How to tell the difference between a kumidashi cup used for hot water or for tea? I would like very much for someone with that knowledge to share it.

In chado the kumidashi-wan are only ever used to serve the water that will be used for a tea gathering, to show case the water and let the guests know what to expect from it, or in certain occasions an herb beverage called kosen. according to A Cahnoyu Vocabulary: pratical terms for the way of tea "The cups are usually slightly smaller than regular cups for serving steeped green tea". in Chado, everything made domestically in Japan called "wamono" is typically made for a ver specific purpose, whilst things made outside of japan "shimamono" may be "found objects", and repurposed. So in those regards it would be considered perhaps "distasteful" to use a kumidashi-wan for drinking green tea, and one would certainly want to avoid having them become stained with evident tea use. Now outside of the world of Chado, you can do whatever you would like with any kind of cup you want. If I were a shop like zencha.net, marketing in english to a presumably non Japanese market I would certainly want to have my cups be seen as something that are for green tea use ( I am guessing most of the visitors to the site already drink green tea and/or are looking for something to serve tea in) rather than be seen soley as cups to serve warm water in before a formal tea gathering (something I am guessing a relatively small number of people visiting the site would likely be doing).

I will ask my Sensei for their on the record opinions regarding the matter and see what they have to say. Not sure If i'm making it any clearer or just raising more questions.

[rdl]

I will ask my Sensei for their on the record opinions regarding the matter and see what they have to say. Not sure If i'm making it any clearer or just raising more questions.

blairswhitaker... both, which I appreciate very much. I wait to hear more, but just in case I was not clear, I thought the original term was adopted and its function from chado was changed for casual tea drinking, using the term only to reference its specific role in chado, by potters in Japan.
Thanks for the discussion.

[debunix]

Interesting. I find the kumidashi-wan size and shape perfect for everyday tea drinking--but I'm not drinking matcha.

[miig]

Hi teachat,
I've been following the Hagi topic in general and this thread in particular for quite some time now and the Hagi sirens have never stopped calling on me.

And after looking out, I just fell in love with this one and its laid-back, natural touch. So, today was the big day - my high quality Japanese tea bowl arrived - made by Deishi and delivered by Magokorodo.
My roommates were mildly interested, and after hearing about the price, they were quite - uh -
But I'm sure most of the readers of this topic have been there .

And I adore it - I've been looking at pictures for quite some time now but of course it's a whole different story actually holding one of these in your hands. It's really fascinating how different this low-fired, coarse sand feels! Most of all, its seems incredibly fragile! A tiny amount of pressure, and I can feel how its warping and hear how its crackling... totally different from sturdy porcelain, or is this just my impression? It also leaks, as it is supposed to , but not so much.

Ironically I'm not sure whether I will be able to use it for Matcha as I intended - there is no even space at the bottom, its more curved than I expected and I won't be able to move the whisk in a horizontal direction. I suppose its just a matter of technique, do you think that its possible to prepare decent Matcha in such a bowl anyhow? Hopefully not

Seriously, if not, no big problem since I got that shape because I also wanted to use it for 'bowl tea' (infusing leaves directly in the bowl) and for this the walls shouldn't be completely upright so that the tea can cool down more quickly at the edges.

Well, enough said, before you fall asleep, here are the pictures! Sorry that theres so much out of focus, I may have overdone it a little with the prime lens

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IMG_9415b.jpg (51.3 KiB) Viewed 1124 times

[Pig Hog]

What was it described as? If it's actually a chawan, then of course you can prepare matcha in it. It's specifically made for that purpose...

[miig]

Hi, thanks for the reply.
It was described as "HAGI-YAKI BIWA-YUU IDO-CHAWAN (loquat glaze powdered-green-tea Teabowl IDO type)." - sounds good

Here's the link btw.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/c1898-Japanese- ... 1065409340

Only challenge now will be to develop a suitable whisking technique

[Pig Hog]

Well yeah, if you haven't tried yet, you'll probably find it easier when you actually give it a go.

[debunix]

I love that loquat glaze. Haven't yet had the right piece call to me, though, but I do keep checking and waiting. I think now that I know the problem--my favorite size/shape is really the kumidashi-wan which is apparently not meant for drinking tea at all. If I were drinking matcha regularly it would be different. Anyway....no shame in succumbing to the siren call of a lovely Hagi.

As for usefulness as Chawan.....share a few interior photos and I bet folks here can make some useful predictions/prognostications for you.

[miig]

Yes, the glaze is great. Even though, from a purist point of view its almost a shame to buy these online via pictures. I presume that they mostly look far better in real life than on photos, which by itself is not a bad thing Still, it must be so much more interesting to be in a shop where you can actually see them in real life... but presumably that privilege is reserved for the Japanese... for now

And for the shapes, yes you're right, these kumidashi are great and seem to be quite exclusively made for Matcha. And for the usefulness - yes I'll see to it that I get a photo from the inside, even though Pig Hog's hint was very helpful - if its got the "powdered tea" in the description, it can't be impossible to make decent matcha in that thing

Still, it took me a while to realize that I'll better not use this thing for tea with a totally different taste profile, e.g. Shu Pu (which is so great for grandpa-tea...), because this bowl is really very open!

[Fuut]

Wow what great timing. Here's a loquat piece i took of Ebay last night:)

[debunix]

Definitely want to be careful what you put in a cup like that because it will absorb flavors from the tea. I don't worry too much about a mellow oolong flavor contaminating later sencha, but never use my similarly porous cups for herbal or scented or smoky or otherwise unusual and strongly scented/flavored teas.

And slipped with another lovely loquat teabow.

[miig]

Hey Fuut, great Chawan!
Its really interesting how different it is from the one I bought - especially at the base - yours has a much more rustic appearance with much more different colours - more Hagilike I suppose. But its new, right? I ask because the cracks are so dark already.. did you buy it exclusively for Matcha?

speaking of which...

As for usefulness as Chawan.....share a few interior photos and I bet folks here can make some useful predictions/prognostications for you.

so here are two photos which I hope show the interior a little. I think its less obvious than I hoped but the walls are really very round and rise pretty steeply from the edges of the Chasen. There's certainly a technique, but horizontal movement is not possible.

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IMG_9434.jpg (40.52 KiB) Viewed 1107 times

PS. Be that as it may - the Chawan is performing brilliantly for bowl tea!

IMG_9442b.jpg (26.88 KiB) Viewed 1107 times

[debunix]

Looks very tasty, but it's definitely going to take more rocking with the whisk compared to a flat-bottomed vessel.

[miig]

PS 2: Does anyone know how they produce these and regular cracks? Its amazing how they are in the clay but how the glazing is split as well! (I'm not talking about the fine micro-cracks which do not really split the glaze but look like a painted web and turn darker with time, but these bigger ones).