The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

[Fuut]

Hey nice pictures!

Your chawan looks so serene, especially filled with tea leaves. Lovely.

On topic of your question, i believe that the more sand added to the glaze the more the glaze will 'crawl' up. Not sure on how accurate this is but i think the theory is sound.

And no, its not brand new, its i suppose 2nd or 3rd or more -hand:) I wish i had the money to buy more new pieces, but I'm afraid that will never happen;) And yes, i planned on only using it for matchaa, i always use smaller yunomi's for other tea's.

[AdamMY]

so here are two photos which I hope show the interior a little. I think its less obvious than I hoped but the walls are really very round and rise pretty steeply from the edges of the Chasen. There's certainly a technique, but horizontal movement is not possible.

This is actually a very classical shape for a teabowl, and you should try it before you believe it won't work. If you think you need a flat bowl, chances are you're already whisking wrong and scraping the bottom with the chasen. The whisk does not need to really be that close to the bottom of the bowl if the matcha is sifted well enough, as the motion of the water/ tea will pick it up into a suspension which the whisking will then completely mix.

So think about whisking a little bit off the bottom of the bowl where the bowl is indeed much wider, and you will see how well it works. I've made matcha successfully in a very similar shaped bowl quite a few times.

[JBaymore]

PS 2: Does anyone know how they produce these and regular cracks? Its amazing how they are in the clay but how the glazing is split as well! (I'm not talking about the fine micro-cracks which do not really split the glaze but look like a painted web and turn darker with time, but these bigger ones).

What you are looking at is technically called "crawling". In industry it is considered a defect....and gets fixed.

This kind of thing happens due to the surface tension of the molten glaze.

Glaze (on the piece in your hands right now) is technically sort of a "liquid" (oversimplification... but reasonable concept). It is just "frozen" at the moment. When it is at the peak of the firing it is quite liquid (hence the "dripsicles" that debunix loves so much).

Certain oxides (a glaze is made up of a loose association of oxides like SiO2, Al2O3, CaO, MgO, Na2O, and so on) impart certain characteristics to a melted (and frozen) glaze. The balance of the proprotional relationships of these oxides determin the characteristics of the glaze.

Some oxides cause the surface tension of the molten glaze to be high. This causes the glaze to want to pull back into itself when there is a place that causes an irregularity. The small surface cracks in the hagi clay cause the high surface tension glaze to do this. Hence the surface.

Sometimes a raw unfired glaze coating applied to the clay forn will shrink as it dries, and will cause cracks in the surface similar to a dry river bottom. This too will cause a high surface tension glaze (like many American Shinos) to do this "beading up" quality.

The glaze has to have the right combination of breaking up and pulling into itself to be a pleasant surface. If this is off, it either does not exhibit this characteristic.... or it resembles a Surform Rasp.

best,

...................john

[miig]

Hi,
thanks a lot for the great feedback!
Yes Adam, you were totally right - the problem with whisking doesn't really exist - the powder is pulled up and I it works beautifully. Also, there's not really powdery residue in the cracks.

I got the advice in this thread to soak the bowl for at least 15mins before use to prevent stains and to prime it to temperatur shocks - that should take care of it even more.
I wondered though whether the Hagi would suffer on the long run if I always poured boiling water into the cold bowl - sure its quite a shock, I just thought that they were made for this, but maybe thats the price of beauty

Thank you also John for the detailled explanation, thats very profound information, I was very happy about it!

[blairswhitaker]

I wondered though whether the Hagi would suffer on the long run if I always poured boiling water into the cold bowl - sure its quite a shock, I just thought that they were made for this, but maybe thats the price of beauty

It won't suffer in the long run as long as you take care of it, I have the opportunity to use bowls that are hundreds of years old and they are in as good of condition as the day they were made. assuming no catastrophic firing defects are present, the chawan should outlive everything except clumsiness, natural disasters, and cats. when you soak the bowl it fills all the "dead space" in the clay with water, you may have noticed that hagi ware is quite porous and sweats/and or leaks a bit, thats the nature of the beast. It is unlikely that anything disastrous would ever happen if you were to forgo soaking, other than the bowl aging in a slightly unnatural way, but that is the way it's been done in Japan for centuries and I would imagine it's better to go with these traditions if you are trying to preserve your newly found treasure.

[William]

other than the bowl aging in a slightly unnatural way

I would not define it with the words unnatural way. A good portion of the Hagi-yaki Chawan from Edo/Meiji period that I saw in person, have this kind of patina. Probably it can not please everyone, but I consider its development much more natural that a completely scintillating one, despite the hundreds of times that it has been used. Just my opinion.

Regards.

[Pig Hog]

I know all about clumsiness

[William]

I know all about clumsiness

What do you mean?

[blairswhitaker]

other than the bowl aging in a slightly unnatural way

I would not define it with the words unnatural way. A good portion of the Hagi-yaki Chawan from Edo/Meiji period that I saw in person, have this kind of patina. Probably it can not please everyone, but I consider its development much more natural that a completely scintillating one, despite the hundreds of times that it has been used. Just my opinion.

Regards.

not sure what kind of patina you are referring to, I regularly see bowls from these time periods and nothing seems unnatural about them.

[William]

other than the bowl aging in a slightly unnatural way

I would not define it with the words unnatural way. A good portion of the Hagi-yaki Chawan from Edo/Meiji period that I saw in person, have this kind of patina. Probably it can not please everyone, but I consider its development much more natural that a completely scintillating one, despite the hundreds of times that it has been used. Just my opinion.

Regards.

not sure what kind of patina you are referring to, I regularly see bowls from these time periods and nothing seems unnatural about them.

I am referring to that kind of patina that is usually is formed by the accumulation of tea stains inside the craquelure surface.

[blairswhitaker]

other than the bowl aging in a slightly unnatural way

I would not define it with the words unnatural way. A good portion of the Hagi-yaki Chawan from Edo/Meiji period that I saw in person, have this kind of patina. Probably it can not please everyone, but I consider its development much more natural that a completely scintillating one, despite the hundreds of times that it has been used. Just my opinion.

Regards.

not sure what kind of patina you are referring to, I regularly see bowls from these time periods and nothing seems unnatural about them.

I am referring to that kind of patina that is usually is formed by the accumulation of tea stains inside the craquelure surface.

soaking Hagi does not in any way stop it from going through the fabled "seven changes of hagi", it does however cause it to age much more evenly and uniformly.

without soaking it looks more like stains from accumulated grime, and less like the desired wabi aesthetic.

I think many westerns tend to not realize that wabi is not only the look of being worn, used, and aged, but also the look of being immaculately cared for during an objects lifetime.
worn smooth from polishing and cleaning is more wabi than looking as though it has been neglected and has an accumulation of forgotten tea.

soaking also brings out the "amamori" or leaky roof effect, that is small spots that appear around pinholes in the glaze when the clay beneath the slightly translucent glaze darkens from the liquid that has soaked into the clay through the pinhole. a lot of hagi pieces exhibit this, you may have noticed Your hagi chawans look much more spotty directly after use and then the spots tend to fade away, though they will become more permanent over time as tea actually stains the clay body it's self. The fine crazing in the glaze will eventually darken and stand out against the clay body, but In the world of chado we appreciate when this happens more uniformly and throughout time.

seeing a hagi bowl that has a concentration of stains in just one area and is still brilliantly white or loquat over the rest of the bowl is akin to seeing a twenty year old woman with a heavy concentration of liver spots on her hands. It's just not aesthetically appealing and betrays its self.

[William]

other than the bowl aging in a slightly unnatural way

I would not define it with the words unnatural way. A good portion of the Hagi-yaki Chawan from Edo/Meiji period that I saw in person, have this kind of patina. Probably it can not please everyone, but I consider its development much more natural that a completely scintillating one, despite the hundreds of times that it has been used. Just my opinion.

Regards.

not sure what kind of patina you are referring to, I regularly see bowls from these time periods and nothing seems unnatural about them.

I am referring to that kind of patina that is usually is formed by the accumulation of tea stains inside the craquelure surface.

soaking Hagi does not in any way stop it from going through the fabled "seven changes of hagi", it does however cause it to age much more evenly and uniformly.

without soaking it looks more like stains from accumulated grime, and less like the desired wabi aesthetic.

I think many westerns tend to not realize that wabi is not only the look of being worn, used, and aged, but also the look of being immaculately cared for during an objects lifetime.
worn smooth from polishing and cleaning is more wabi than looking as though it has been neglected and has an accumulation of forgotten tea.

soaking also brings out the "amamori" or leaky roof effect, that is small spots that appear around pinholes in the glaze when the clay beneath the slightly translucent glaze darkens from the liquid that has soaked into the clay through the pinhole. a lot of hagi pieces exhibit this, you may have noticed Your hagi chawans look much more spotty directly after use and then the spots tend to fade away, though they will become more permanent over time as tea actually stains the clay body it's self. The fine crazing in the glaze will eventually darken and stand out against the clay body, but In the world of chado we appreciate when this happens more uniformly and throughout time.

seeing a hagi bowl that has a concentration of stains in just one area and is still brilliantly white or loquat over the rest of the bowl is akin to seeing a twenty year old woman with a heavy concentration of liver spots on her hands. It's just not aesthetically appealing and betrays its self.

Thanks for the explanation. So, if I correctly understood, regarding Hagi-yaki Chawan, it is more respectful of the wabi idea, a delicate but uniform patina over the entire craquelure surface, as opposed to one more concentrated in some points but less uniform?

Regards.

[blairswhitaker]

it would be more wabi in the sense that a hagi chawan would develop a more even patina, with some slight concentration in some areas but not to extreme, just by the very nature of use through decades and even centuries of standard use in Cha-no-yu. the standard practice of chado in general prevents a build up of staining from happening in just one area, including the soaking cycles, wiping down with chakin, making tea, rinsing with hot water, rinsing with cold water, wiping down with fukin, general handling, ect...

[JBaymore]

I think many westerns tend to not realize that wabi is not only the look of being worn, used, and aged, but also the look of being immaculately cared for during an objects lifetime.
worn smooth from polishing and cleaning is more wabi than looking as though it has been neglected and has an accumulation of forgotten tea.

Amen.

My friends in Japan say Bizen ware takes at least 60 years of being in use to reach the finished state.

best,

................john

[blairswhitaker]

^ this guy, he gets it.