The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

[rdl]

Enjoying two new pieces

So how many pieces of hagi you have already?

I really have no idea. I buy pieces that fit my visual interest, rather than practical necessity. Even if tea will never be poured into it, it is held and admired.

[Fuut]

Enjoying two new pieces

They look nice, wanna spoil the surprise where you got them and who made them?

Here's a photo i made yesterday of the little desk display:) Hagi vase with a big tulip (vase is already somewhere in this topic), by Seigan and a shino chawan by Higuchi Masayuki.

[rdl]

Enjoying two new pieces

They look nice, wanna spoil the surprise where you got them and who made them?

Here's a photo i made yesterday of the little desk display:) Hagi vase with a big tulip (vase is already somewhere in this topic), by Seigan and a shino chawan by Higuchi Masayuki.

It's nice to see your Hagi/Shino still life, thanks for posting.
Kaneda Tomoaki, is the artist. I met him and his father in Hagi, at their kiln. Wonderful people, in a magical place. These I purchased through Saito-an.

[Fuut]

Enjoying two new pieces

They look nice, wanna spoil the surprise where you got them and who made them?

Here's a photo i made yesterday of the little desk display:) Hagi vase with a big tulip (vase is already somewhere in this topic), by Seigan and a shino chawan by Higuchi Masayuki.

It's nice to see your Hagi/Shino still life, thanks for posting.
Kaneda Tomoaki, is the artist. I met him and his father in Hagi, at their kiln. Wonderful people, in a magical place. These I purchased through Saito-an.

God I'm jealous. I wish one day I'll have the funds to go! Visiting a potters studio would be one the highlights among Tokyo NM. Would need some serious funds to able to buy some pieces along the way. Sounds fantastic

edit: TAD prevents it though ^^

[Tead Off]

Enjoying two new pieces

They look nice, wanna spoil the surprise where you got them and who made them?

Here's a photo i made yesterday of the little desk display:) Hagi vase with a big tulip (vase is already somewhere in this topic), by Seigan and a shino chawan by Higuchi Masayuki.

It's nice to see your Hagi/Shino still life, thanks for posting.
Kaneda Tomoaki, is the artist. I met him and his father in Hagi, at their kiln. Wonderful people, in a magical place. These I purchased through Saito-an.

God I'm jealous. I wish one day I'll have the funds to go! Visiting a potters studio would be one the highlights among Tokyo NM. Would need some serious funds to able to buy some pieces along the way. Sounds fantastic

edit: TAD prevents it though ^^

Fuut,

Japan is a wonderful place to travel in. Buying teaware, is another matter. There is little hope to buy things of quality and not pay a premium. Outside of 'flea markets', and sheer luck, the best possibilities exist online at sites like Yahoo Japan, ebay, etc. Of course, if money is not an issue, buying directly from potters is special.

[sugataishi]

Enjoying two new pieces

They look nice, wanna spoil the surprise where you got them and who made them?

Here's a photo i made yesterday of the little desk display:) Hagi vase with a big tulip (vase is already somewhere in this topic), by Seigan and a shino chawan by Higuchi Masayuki.

It's nice to see your Hagi/Shino still life, thanks for posting.
Kaneda Tomoaki, is the artist. I met him and his father in Hagi, at their kiln. Wonderful people, in a magical place. These I purchased through Saito-an.

God I'm jealous. I wish one day I'll have the funds to go! Visiting a potters studio would be one the highlights among Tokyo NM. Would need some serious funds to able to buy some pieces along the way. Sounds fantastic

edit: TAD prevents it though ^^

Fuut,

Japan is a wonderful place to travel in. Buying teaware, is another matter. There is little hope to buy things of quality and not pay a premium. Outside of 'flea markets', and sheer luck, the best possibilities exist online at sites like Yahoo Japan, ebay, etc. Of course, if money is not an issue, buying directly from potters is special.

The truth is that the more beauty a hagi has the more you have to Pay.

Wysłane z mojego D5103 przy użyciu Tapatalka

[Sasameyuki]

Enjoying two new pieces

Absolutely beautiful!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rdl]

Enjoying two new pieces

Absolutely beautiful!

Sasameyuki,
Thank you! There has been discussion here about teaware being collected and not used vs being used. My thinking is of artists creating works of art, which I am perfectly happy with just looking at and appreciating. I have put these two cups along side my other pieces of his, alongside his father's pieces. Just to admire.

[Tead Off]

Enjoying two new pieces

They look nice, wanna spoil the surprise where you got them and who made them?

Here's a photo i made yesterday of the little desk display:) Hagi vase with a big tulip (vase is already somewhere in this topic), by Seigan and a shino chawan by Higuchi Masayuki.

It's nice to see your Hagi/Shino still life, thanks for posting.
Kaneda Tomoaki, is the artist. I met him and his father in Hagi, at their kiln. Wonderful people, in a magical place. These I purchased through Saito-an.

God I'm jealous. I wish one day I'll have the funds to go! Visiting a potters studio would be one the highlights among Tokyo NM. Would need some serious funds to able to buy some pieces along the way. Sounds fantastic

edit: TAD prevents it though ^^

Fuut,

Japan is a wonderful place to travel in. Buying teaware, is another matter. There is little hope to buy things of quality and not pay a premium. Outside of 'flea markets', and sheer luck, the best possibilities exist online at sites like Yahoo Japan, ebay, etc. Of course, if money is not an issue, buying directly from potters is special.

The truth is that the more beauty a hagi has the more you have to Pay.

Wysłane z mojego D5103 przy użyciu Tapatalka

Beauty is a concept and has no reality except for a subjective one. It will change from person to person.

[rdl]

Enjoying two new pieces

They look nice, wanna spoil the surprise where you got them and who made them?

Here's a photo i made yesterday of the little desk display:) Hagi vase with a big tulip (vase is already somewhere in this topic), by Seigan and a shino chawan by Higuchi Masayuki.

It's nice to see your Hagi/Shino still life, thanks for posting.
Kaneda Tomoaki, is the artist. I met him and his father in Hagi, at their kiln. Wonderful people, in a magical place. These I purchased through Saito-an.

God I'm jealous. I wish one day I'll have the funds to go! Visiting a potters studio would be one the highlights among Tokyo NM. Would need some serious funds to able to buy some pieces along the way. Sounds fantastic

edit: TAD prevents it though ^^

Fuut,

Japan is a wonderful place to travel in. Buying teaware, is another matter. There is little hope to buy things of quality and not pay a premium. Outside of 'flea markets', and sheer luck, the best possibilities exist online at sites like Yahoo Japan, ebay, etc. Of course, if money is not an issue, buying directly from potters is special.

The truth is that the more beauty a hagi has the more you have to Pay.

Wysłane z mojego D5103 przy użyciu Tapatalka

Beauty is a concept and has no reality except for a subjective one. It will change from person to person.

Sort of. There is a collective sense of beauty that the Japanese see in tea bowls, and the greater a tea bowl reflects that beauty, the greater the price.
There are many objective features of beauty, given that a great majority of people will all recognize those features.
This does not exclude the wide divergence of defining beauty nor limit seeing beauty in tea ware to the Japanese, but for the sake of discussion I have simplified my points.

[Tead Off]

Enjoying two new pieces

They look nice, wanna spoil the surprise where you got them and who made them?

Here's a photo i made yesterday of the little desk display:) Hagi vase with a big tulip (vase is already somewhere in this topic), by Seigan and a shino chawan by Higuchi Masayuki.

It's nice to see your Hagi/Shino still life, thanks for posting.
Kaneda Tomoaki, is the artist. I met him and his father in Hagi, at their kiln. Wonderful people, in a magical place. These I purchased through Saito-an.

God I'm jealous. I wish one day I'll have the funds to go! Visiting a potters studio would be one the highlights among Tokyo NM. Would need some serious funds to able to buy some pieces along the way. Sounds fantastic

edit: TAD prevents it though ^^

Fuut,

Japan is a wonderful place to travel in. Buying teaware, is another matter. There is little hope to buy things of quality and not pay a premium. Outside of 'flea markets', and sheer luck, the best possibilities exist online at sites like Yahoo Japan, ebay, etc. Of course, if money is not an issue, buying directly from potters is special.

The truth is that the more beauty a hagi has the more you have to Pay.

Wysłane z mojego D5103 przy użyciu Tapatalka

Beauty is a concept and has no reality except for a subjective one. It will change from person to person.

Sort of. There is a collective sense of beauty that the Japanese see in tea bowls, and the greater a tea bowl reflects that beauty, the greater the price.
There are many objective features of beauty, given that a great majority of people will all recognize those features.
This does not exclude the wide divergence of defining beauty nor limit seeing beauty in tea ware to the Japanese, but for the sake of discussion I have simplified my points.

What you are describing is aesthetic value that is conceptual in origin and lives in your mind. This becomes the basis for putting a price on an object. This way of defining 'beauty' goes against the Buddhist way of understanding the world and its appearances and gives rise to all kinds of conceptual confusion and identity.

To illustrate, some of the most highly regarded tea bowls in Japan are simple Korean rustic creations that introduced a new element into the Japanese culture. These products were created by simple potters not adhering to 'market' conditions, but to a practical usefulness. They were usually quite poor and were simple artisans working within the needs of the community. The elevation of a particular aesthetic is usually associated with an elite class who give 'value' to style and perpetuate an 'idea' of beauty. In other words, there is a kind of 'collective conditioning' or belief system created that begins to take precedence over the simple reality of appearances and the attachment to them, which in terms of Buddhist psychology, which Japan is very influenced by, is a kind of delusion. Beauty and style are subjective and are elements in the personal and collective narrative that each person and culture creates, but has no basis in reality. They are not things, but ideas. It is like a theatrical production that entertains for a short while. It's a bit of a game with a lot of self interest and pride/ego that accompany it, not to mention a hefty price tag.

Of course, you are free to determine your own views about all of this. Hopefully, this discernment of beauty turns towards an understanding of the perceiver, which is also a conception with no solidity. Where does that leave us? Cheers!

[rdl]

Enjoying two new pieces

They look nice, wanna spoil the surprise where you got them and who made them?

Here's a photo i made yesterday of the little desk display:) Hagi vase with a big tulip (vase is already somewhere in this topic), by Seigan and a shino chawan by Higuchi Masayuki.

It's nice to see your Hagi/Shino still life, thanks for posting.
Kaneda Tomoaki, is the artist. I met him and his father in Hagi, at their kiln. Wonderful people, in a magical place. These I purchased through Saito-an.

God I'm jealous. I wish one day I'll have the funds to go! Visiting a potters studio would be one the highlights among Tokyo NM. Would need some serious funds to able to buy some pieces along the way. Sounds fantastic

edit: TAD prevents it though ^^

Fuut,

Japan is a wonderful place to travel in. Buying teaware, is another matter. There is little hope to buy things of quality and not pay a premium. Outside of 'flea markets', and sheer luck, the best possibilities exist online at sites like Yahoo Japan, ebay, etc. Of course, if money is not an issue, buying directly from potters is special.

The truth is that the more beauty a hagi has the more you have to Pay.

Wysłane z mojego D5103 przy użyciu Tapatalka

Beauty is a concept and has no reality except for a subjective one. It will change from person to person.

Sort of. There is a collective sense of beauty that the Japanese see in tea bowls, and the greater a tea bowl reflects that beauty, the greater the price.
There are many objective features of beauty, given that a great majority of people will all recognize those features.
This does not exclude the wide divergence of defining beauty nor limit seeing beauty in tea ware to the Japanese, but for the sake of discussion I have simplified my points.

What you are describing is aesthetic value that is conceptual in origin and lives in your mind. This becomes the basis for putting a price on an object. This way of defining 'beauty' goes against the Buddhist way of understanding the world and its appearances and gives rise to all kinds of conceptual confusion and identity.

To illustrate, some of the most highly regarded tea bowls in Japan are simple Korean rustic creations that introduced a new element into the Japanese culture. These products were created by simple potters not adhering to 'market' conditions, but to a practical usefulness. They were usually quite poor and were simple artisans working within the needs of the community. The elevation of a particular aesthetic is usually associated with an elite class who give 'value' to style and perpetuate an 'idea' of beauty. In other words, there is a kind of 'collective conditioning' or belief system created that begins to take precedence over the simple reality of appearances and the attachment to them, which in terms of Buddhist psychology, which Japan is very influenced by, is a kind of delusion. Beauty and style are subjective and are elements in the personal and collective narrative that each person and culture creates, but has no basis in reality. They are not things, but ideas. It is like a theatrical production that entertains for a short while. It's a bit of a game with a lot of self interest and pride/ego that accompany it, not to mention a hefty price tag.

Of course, you are free to determine your own views about all of this. Hopefully, this discernment of beauty turns towards an understanding of the perceiver, which is also a conception with no solidity. Where does that leave us? Cheers!

and I tried to keep it simple...
Definition of beauty

1
: the quality or aggregate of qualities in a person or thing that gives pleasure to the senses or pleasurably exalts the mind or spirit :

Definition of aesthetic

1
: a branch of philosophy dealing with the nature of beauty, art, and taste and with the creation and appreciation of beauty

2
: a particular theory or conception of beauty or art : a particular taste for or approach to what is pleasing to the senses and especially sight

I am referring to Beauty, the immediate response, not the thought-out theory or philosophy. For example:
"Phi is more than an obscure term found in mathematics and physics. It appears around us in our daily lives, even in our aesthetic views. Studies have shown that when test subjects view random faces, the ones they deem most attractive are those with solid parallels to the Golden ratio. Faces judged as the most attractive show Golden ratio proportions between the width of the face and the width of the eyes, nose, and eyebrows. The test subjects weren't mathematicians or physicists familiar with phi — they were just average people, and the Golden ratio elicited an instinctual reaction."
Even ridding ourselves of subjective views, we all hold inherent views of beauty that evolve into aesthetic views. Buddhist doctrine is not sense based, I understand. But if we keep the discussion to modern day Hagiyaki, I don't see robed monks or nuns in line to purchase these works. Tea and tea ware have moved into the popular culture and I believe the discussion began on this preface. I am sure even in their extreme simplicity, those first Korean rice bowls did possess beauty, apart from the aesthetic cult that developed around them. Don't you see the beauty?

[ethan]

David Hume's work & the work of Umberto Eco, Noam Chomsky & others argues that abstract language is based on our impression of concrete images. "Stop" may lead one to picture a car screeching to halt or a stop sign. By the time one can speak the word "beautiful," he may have been imprinted w/ a type of face or cup that is beautiful. The greatest argument against such theories for me (who is not a well-read intellectual) is by Borges in his short story, "Funes the Memoriest". No alternative theory was offered, but it does make a mockery of the idea that our brains for the most part are a storage of memory of one impression after another (which Hume in Understanding Man spent 800 pages saying).

To me, Teadoff's beautifully written rationale breaks down to the adage, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder," & we should remember the beholder's perception is shaped by his experience.

[Tead Off]

Enjoying two new pieces

They look nice, wanna spoil the surprise where you got them and who made them?

Here's a photo i made yesterday of the little desk display:) Hagi vase with a big tulip (vase is already somewhere in this topic), by Seigan and a shino chawan by Higuchi Masayuki.

It's nice to see your Hagi/Shino still life, thanks for posting.
Kaneda Tomoaki, is the artist. I met him and his father in Hagi, at their kiln. Wonderful people, in a magical place. These I purchased through Saito-an.

God I'm jealous. I wish one day I'll have the funds to go! Visiting a potters studio would be one the highlights among Tokyo NM. Would need some serious funds to able to buy some pieces along the way. Sounds fantastic

edit: TAD prevents it though ^^

Fuut,

Japan is a wonderful place to travel in. Buying teaware, is another matter. There is little hope to buy things of quality and not pay a premium. Outside of 'flea markets', and sheer luck, the best possibilities exist online at sites like Yahoo Japan, ebay, etc. Of course, if money is not an issue, buying directly from potters is special.

The truth is that the more beauty a hagi has the more you have to Pay.

Wysłane z mojego D5103 przy użyciu Tapatalka

Beauty is a concept and has no reality except for a subjective one. It will change from person to person.

Sort of. There is a collective sense of beauty that the Japanese see in tea bowls, and the greater a tea bowl reflects that beauty, the greater the price.
There are many objective features of beauty, given that a great majority of people will all recognize those features.
This does not exclude the wide divergence of defining beauty nor limit seeing beauty in tea ware to the Japanese, but for the sake of discussion I have simplified my points.

What you are describing is aesthetic value that is conceptual in origin and lives in your mind. This becomes the basis for putting a price on an object. This way of defining 'beauty' goes against the Buddhist way of understanding the world and its appearances and gives rise to all kinds of conceptual confusion and identity.

To illustrate, some of the most highly regarded tea bowls in Japan are simple Korean rustic creations that introduced a new element into the Japanese culture. These products were created by simple potters not adhering to 'market' conditions, but to a practical usefulness. They were usually quite poor and were simple artisans working within the needs of the community. The elevation of a particular aesthetic is usually associated with an elite class who give 'value' to style and perpetuate an 'idea' of beauty. In other words, there is a kind of 'collective conditioning' or belief system created that begins to take precedence over the simple reality of appearances and the attachment to them, which in terms of Buddhist psychology, which Japan is very influenced by, is a kind of delusion. Beauty and style are subjective and are elements in the personal and collective narrative that each person and culture creates, but has no basis in reality. They are not things, but ideas. It is like a theatrical production that entertains for a short while. It's a bit of a game with a lot of self interest and pride/ego that accompany it, not to mention a hefty price tag.

Of course, you are free to determine your own views about all of this. Hopefully, this discernment of beauty turns towards an understanding of the perceiver, which is also a conception with no solidity. Where does that leave us? Cheers!

and I tried to keep it simple...
Definition of beauty

1
: the quality or aggregate of qualities in a person or thing that gives pleasure to the senses or pleasurably exalts the mind or spirit :

Definition of aesthetic

1
: a branch of philosophy dealing with the nature of beauty, art, and taste and with the creation and appreciation of beauty

2
: a particular theory or conception of beauty or art : a particular taste for or approach to what is pleasing to the senses and especially sight

I am referring to Beauty, the immediate response, not the thought-out theory or philosophy. For example:
"Phi is more than an obscure term found in mathematics and physics. It appears around us in our daily lives, even in our aesthetic views. Studies have shown that when test subjects view random faces, the ones they deem most attractive are those with solid parallels to the Golden ratio. Faces judged as the most attractive show Golden ratio proportions between the width of the face and the width of the eyes, nose, and eyebrows. The test subjects weren't mathematicians or physicists familiar with phi — they were just average people, and the Golden ratio elicited an instinctual reaction."
Even ridding ourselves of subjective views, we all hold inherent views of beauty that evolve into aesthetic views. Buddhist doctrine is not sense based, I understand. But if we keep the discussion to modern day Hagiyaki, I don't see robed monks or nuns in line to purchase these works. Tea and tea ware have moved into the popular culture and I believe the discussion began on this preface. I am sure even in their extreme simplicity, those first Korean rice bowls did possess beauty, apart from the aesthetic cult that developed around them. Don't you see the beauty?

For me, there is inherent beauty in the basic state of awareness, not in the content of perceived objects. I may say 'oh, I like this or like that', but these are just passing thoughts that don't create philosophies or seek any ultimate design of things. Ridding yourself of subjective views includes all views, not just those we pick and choose. All aesthetic views are subjective views. What is inherent is basic awareness, which doesn't rely on subjectivity and which is not 'colored' by it. Awareness doesn't pick and choose. Your conditioned mind is what is moving, that is all. That conditioned mind is always dividing things into dualities, good and bad, beautiful and ugly. What is really beautiful is to be present, in the moment, without being lost in thought, which is always busy with itself.

[sugataishi]

Why some Seigan Yamane's work are as cheap as 30 USD but some go in hundreds dollars? What is the difference?

An inexpensive Seigan teabowl, about 10oz so it works either as a smaller matcha bowl or bulk consumption of other tea.