These entry level Yixing pots look good to me!

[BioHorn]

OK, I get it now, if it looks polished where it shouldn't, we know polishing has occurred.

It really depends. In late Qing and ROC China imported many Yixing pots to Thailand, which were by craftsmen polished to a high sheen in Thailand. Real pots, especially the smaller ones are extremely expensive nowadays.

Any photos or links to them would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for your input.

Just googling briefly i found three links of that style of pots:

http://alansmuseum.blogspot.com/2013/07 ... ixing.html

http://www.lookeastmagazine.com/wp-cont ... tion-3.jpg

http://www.the-saleroom.com/fr-fr/aucti ... 3a01085bf9

Thank you very much for doing the Googling. Now that makes sense. I had been seeing these sorts of shiny pots for some time and never understood the connection. Certainly not many here in the Mid-West, USA!

[BW85]

OK, I get it now, if it looks polished where it shouldn't, we know polishing has occurred.

It really depends. In late Qing and ROC China imported many Yixing pots to Thailand, which were by craftsmen polished to a high sheen in Thailand. Real pots, especially the smaller ones are extremely expensive nowadays.

Any photos or links to them would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for your input.

Just googling briefly i found three links of that style of pots:

http://alansmuseum.blogspot.com/2013/07 ... ixing.html

http://www.lookeastmagazine.com/wp-cont ... tion-3.jpg

http://www.the-saleroom.com/fr-fr/aucti ... 3a01085bf9

Thank you very much for doing the Googling. Now that makes sense. I had been seeing these sorts of shiny pots for some time and never understood the connection. Certainly not many here in the Mid-West, USA!

Chewpingtan on Instagram has an amazing pot collection which includes quite a few of these highly polished yixing teapots

[theredbaron]

Thank you very much for doing the Googling. Now that makes sense. I had been seeing these sorts of shiny pots for some time and never understood the connection. Certainly not many here in the Mid-West, USA!

There are nowadays quite a few fakes and imitations around, though i was told by a local collector that they are not too difficult to spot as they exact knowledge of the process of polishing has been lost. I don't dare to go into that as pots that are small enough and in a condition to actually use are very rare and very very expensive. Lots of these pots have been bought in the 90's by Malaysian collectors. You can see quite a few of them as show pieces in Chinese shops here, but they mostly are heirlooms not for sale.

[jayinhk]

Keep buffing and you'll eventually get there!

[lvwen]

Hmmmm that makes me wonder if these pots are coated with better clay, with cheaper clay underneath, and fine sand applied under the top coating to provide texture...

nop..

actually..

many yixings are singly fired, and the lid is fired on with the pot. the traditional F1 used quartz powder for higher end items, some other workshops may use aluminum filings etc.. depending on the budget and preference they use a whole range of different powders. if sloppily applied, there will be staining, which can be removed.

Hi. there. I am not sure if I should chime in. Actually I am the vendor.
I beg to disagree.
All the Yixing teapots are fired 2 times these days. 20 years ago, all pots are singly fired, but most of them leak badly from the lid. Because it is not easy for the lid and the opening of the teapot to fit perfectly as zisha contracts when fired in the kiln. As buyers want tighter lidded teapots, so second time firing took place, which makes the lid and the opening of the teapot almost to perfection.
The makers do it this way. They take care not to make a too big opening when they are cutting the mouth of the teapot.
When the teapot is ready for 1st time firing, the lid isn't and can't wholly be put into the opening of the teapot, in between white quartz sand is inserted to prevent the lid and the opening of the teapot from sticking together in the kiln.
After getting out of the kiln, the lid and mouth are coated with silicon carbide, and ground first separately using a steel ring, and then together against each other. By doing so, the lid and the mouth of the teapot can fit almost perfectly. But a second firing is necessary, as the parts ground became coarse. So same zisha material is coated on the parts ground. Teapots with lid on, in between again quartz sand inserted, are fired for the second time, making them good looking.
That is why sometimes people may find grey smears inside the wall of the teapot, and white powders on the bottom of the teapot, if the teapot is not cleaned properly in the process.

[jayinhk]

Thanks for that info and welcome to TeaChat!

[kyarazen]

good to hear that you guys are doing double firing even for cheap pots these days. i know a lot of artisans do that

Hmmmm that makes me wonder if these pots are coated with better clay, with cheaper clay underneath, and fine sand applied under the top coating to provide texture...

nop..

actually..

many yixings are singly fired, and the lid is fired on with the pot. the traditional F1 used quartz powder for higher end items, some other workshops may use aluminum filings etc.. depending on the budget and preference they use a whole range of different powders. if sloppily applied, there will be staining, which can be removed.

Hi. there. I am not sure if I should chime in. Actually I am the vendor.
I beg to disagree.
All the Yixing teapots are fired 2 times these days. 20 years ago, all pots are singly fired, but most of them leak badly from the lid. Because it is not easy for the lid and the opening of the teapot to fit perfectly as zisha contracts when fired in the kiln. As buyers want tighter lidded teapots, so second time firing took place, which makes the lid and the opening of the teapot almost to perfection.
The makers do it this way. They take care not to make a too big opening when they are cutting the mouth of the teapot.
When the teapot is ready for 1st time firing, the lid isn't and can't wholly be put into the opening of the teapot, in between white quartz sand is inserted to prevent the lid and the opening of the teapot from sticking together in the kiln.
After getting out of the kiln, the lid and mouth are smeared with silicon carbide, and ground first separately using a steel ring, and then together against each other. By doing so, the lid and the mouth of the teapot can fit almost perfectly. But a second firing is necessary, as the parts ground became coarse. So same zisha material is smeared on the parts ground. Teapots with lid on, in between again quartz sand inserted, are fired for the second time, making them good looking.
That is why sometimes people may find grey smears inside the wall of the teapot, and white powders on the bottom of the teapot, if the teapot is not cleaned properly in the process.

[lvwen]

good to hear that you guys are doing double firing even for cheap pots these days. i know a lot of artisans do that

Hmmmm that makes me wonder if these pots are coated with better clay, with cheaper clay underneath, and fine sand applied under the top coating to provide texture...

nop..

actually..

many yixings are singly fired, and the lid is fired on with the pot. the traditional F1 used quartz powder for higher end items, some other workshops may use aluminum filings etc.. depending on the budget and preference they use a whole range of different powders. if sloppily applied, there will be staining, which can be removed.

Hi. there. I am not sure if I should chime in. Actually I am the vendor.
I beg to disagree.
All the Yixing teapots are fired 2 times these days. 20 years ago, all pots are singly fired, but most of them leak badly from the lid. Because it is not easy for the lid and the opening of the teapot to fit perfectly as zisha contracts when fired in the kiln. As buyers want tighter lidded teapots, so second time firing took place, which makes the lid and the opening of the teapot almost to perfection.
The makers do it this way. They take care not to make a too big opening when they are cutting the mouth of the teapot.
When the teapot is ready for 1st time firing, the lid isn't and can't wholly be put into the opening of the teapot, in between white quartz sand is inserted to prevent the lid and the opening of the teapot from sticking together in the kiln.
After getting out of the kiln, the lid and mouth are smeared with silicon carbide, and ground first separately using a steel ring, and then together against each other. By doing so, the lid and the mouth of the teapot can fit almost perfectly. But a second firing is necessary, as the parts ground became coarse. So same zisha material is smeared on the parts ground. Teapots with lid on, in between again quartz sand inserted, are fired for the second time, making them good looking.
That is why sometimes people may find grey smears inside the wall of the teapot, and white powders on the bottom of the teapot, if the teapot is not cleaned properly in the process.

The makers must. Otherwise the teapots simply won't sell. Now a tight lid is one of the standards for choosing a teapot. Nobody wants a teapot with a loose lid. .
Besides, it is only about 2-3 dollars in terms of cost.

[kyarazen]

that is subjective, because singly fired pots all the way before 80s to qing are still sought after, due to overall shape aesthetic and material.

so what have the modern potters been blending their clay with? a couple of years ago, two potters came to singapore and demonstrated wheel throwing of "yixing" pots, which is deviant to the traditional unsuitability of yixing material for that purpose. cross referencing with a former aquaintance from wuxi, his son went for a school event in yixing and also reported on yixing being thrown these days.

The makers must. Otherwise the teapots simply won't sell. Now a tight lid is one of the standards for choosing a teapot. Nobody wants a teapot with a loose lid. .
Besides, it is only about 2-3 dollars in terms of cost.

[lvwen]

that is subjective, because singly fired pots all the way before 80s to qing are still sought after, due to overall shape aesthetic and material.

so what have the modern potters been blending their clay with? a couple of years ago, two potters came to singapore and demonstrated wheel throwing of "yixing" pots, which is deviant to the traditional unsuitability of yixing material for that purpose. cross referencing with a former aquaintance from wuxi, his son went for a school event in yixing and also reported on yixing being thrown these days.

The makers must. Otherwise the teapots simply won't sell. Now a tight lid is one of the standards for choosing a teapot. Nobody wants a teapot with a loose lid. .
Besides, it is only about 2-3 dollars in terms of cost.

You are right. There are teapots made by throwing for lower end teapots or souvenirs in gift shops or company gifts. The advantage of throwing is that it is efficient. Large quantities of teapots can be made in very short time. In order to make the lid tight, the teapots made by throwing are fired 2 times too.
But private buyers in China usually buy teapots made by hand or half hand process, that is why throwing is not popular in zisha.

[stevorama]

The makers must. Otherwise the teapots simply won't sell. Now a tight lid is one of the standards for choosing a teapot. Nobody wants a teapot with a loose lid. .
Besides, it is only about 2-3 dollars in terms of cost.

Thanks for the details of modern yi xing production lvwen. Very interesting.

So kyarazen asked about clay content and I'm also curious about clay. I hear different things about old clay, new clay, aged clay, types of clay available today, types of clay only available in the past, etc. How do you personally choose quality modern clay? And how do you think modern clay is different than old clay?

[jayinhk]

Also, how do you feel new zhuni compares to old zhuni? And why do you suggest using lighter-colored clays for lighter-colored teas? Many here like to use duanni for cooked pu erh.

[lvwen]

Also, how do you feel new zhuni compares to old zhuni? And why do you suggest using lighter-colored clays for lighter-colored teas? Many here like to use duanni for cooked pu erh.

There are various guidelines in books and online for choosing an authentic teapot. All are well said. My experience is first of all: a teapot made from authentic zisha, no matter how fine the zisha material is, when feeling the surface of the teapot with hand, we can feel particles. Secondly, new teapots made from authentic zisha must be very plain, and lusterless, of course zhuni teapots are exceptions. Thirdly, smell the inside of the teapot. Teapots made from authentic zisha should have a earthen smell instead of pungent smell like chemicals. Lastly, look at its craftsmanship. A teapot of good craftsmanship is usually of good material. Why, because the cost of zisha is very little in the total cost of a teapot. For instance, a kilo of authentic dicaoqing(with water) of passable quality is about 30 yuan in Yixing, less than 5 dollars. It can produce two 200 cc teapots. There are fake or doctored zisha material, but they are not the mainstream.
The zisha material before communist China or rather before the 1980's is generally of better quality in terms of less fakes. Except that, there is no reason to believe they perform better than new zisha teapots do.
New zisha teapots made from very old and aged material is very expensive. Because they are usually made by senior craftsman with very good craftsmanship. So take care not to be conned by so called old teapots at low prices.
Teapots made from aged material performs better than those from less aged material. They make better tea and can be seasoned more easily.
My suggestion of light colored clay for light colored tea is for the good looking of the teapot. We Chinese do not only take zisha teapots as vessels for making tea. We want the teapot make good tea and at the same time good looking. Dark colored pu-er can easily stains a duanni teapot, especially a duanni teapot not fired high enough, which makes it look dirty. There is terminology for it, "吐黑".

[kyarazen]

Why, because the cost of zisha is very little in the total cost of a teapot. For instance, a kilo of authentic dicaoqing(with water) of passable quality is about 30 yuan in Yixing, less than 5 dollars. It can produce two 200 cc teapots. There are fake or doctored zisha material, but they are not the mainstream.

i'm happy to hear that the material can be had for cheap, is it possible to help me procure some authentic dicaoqing?

i would like a couple of kilograms without water (with water is also ok!) for some potting experiments.. i have an address in sichuan which you can kuai-di to.. or alternatively i do have friends in tieba that can help me forward the package~ i can arrange payment to you easily as well

[jayinhk]

Thank you, very good info. Some here do not like to use pu erh in duanni because of the staining, but many do use duanni only for pu erh here! I only use zini for aged and cooked pu erh myself, and have only tried green teas in the duanni pot I bought from you. We all appreciate your input and you have made modern Yixing pots accessible to many at a fair price, and the good people here at TeaChat have sent a lot of customers your way!