Show Off Your Pots and Cups XII

[IPT]

John, perfectly said. I couldn't agree more.

[Seeker]

OH NO...

I guess I'm drawn to "loud" chawan?

...so gaijin.

Sigh.

(Just my initial response - I may have more to say on this upon digestion).

[Geekgirl]

John, I believe I know what you mean. I have a shino piece in my collection that seems like this. It's a rather stunning piece, with a crawling glaze and a "brash" color. It really overpowers every still-life (photo) I've attempted with it. I've yet to find a combination where it seems to be part of a larger whole, instead of a bowl with matcha in it. It's very difficult to describe, but easy to see once it's pointed out. I've always wondered what the oddity was with that bowl...

Interestingly, I had the opportunity to pick up one that was very similar, but with a slightly more understated finish. I chose the one that was more eye-popping in my ignorance. Don't get me wrong, I do like the piece, but it just doesn't play well with the other children.

Thanks for the discusssion, I found it interesting.

[shyrabbit]

John,
Many thanks for your comments and insight...I truly appreciate your point of view and experience.

I would really like to understand what a "loud" chawan might look like, as you see it, as part of my on going education. For me this subject is so subjective.

Many thanks John,
Michael

[JBaymore]

I chose the one that was more eye-popping in my ignorance.

Oops...... I don't think "in my ignorance" is really appropriate here. Don't put yourself and your sensibilities down quite so casually. I'm sorry if it made you feel thaqt way. It wasn't my intent to have this as a negative.... just to start a conversation about characteristics of work in a certain context and to answer a question from Michael.

Most importantly ........ to my knowledge ....... you are not a practitioner of Chado. So teabowls for you are a different type of object. In a sense, you have your own Chanoyu traditions that you practice. Whatever those are. (As does Seeker and many others here, I am sure.) Within that context, the nature of the bowl is, and can be, very different. (Although it still has to relate to the matcha and the functionality of whisking, the hands, and drinking.)

In the end, I favor a thought from Hamada Shoji about this. I'm paraphrasing here from memory but it is basically, "The pots I like, those are the good pots for me." The context of the conversation was about responding at a "gut", intuitive level to the works rather than an at a more intellectual level.

.......... but it just doesn't play well with the other children.

Clearly you have already started to "feel" this idea of the relationships between the objects..... maybe you did not have the formality of language to express the thought. From you photos and your comments I've seen, you clearly have a "good eye". But then again....... THAT comment above was a perfect re-statement and summation of a good part of what I am driving at! So perfect language there! Thanks.

best,

.................john

PS: Gotta' go glaze a whole pile of pots. Maybe more later.

[Littlepig2]

*Applause* I am quite enjoying the discourse on loud chawan. It is quite articulate & is giving me new material to think with.

Meanwhile it is time for another picture. I leave you with one of my favorite cups to drink tea from. That and a hot little tea pot by its side for refills

[Robert Fornell]

Quite a few interesting comments, ways of seeing have been put forth here of late which began with Victoria's photo of her black chawan. Please allow me to put forth a slightly differing view of it as well as add to the discussion a bit.

While I find the form of Victoria's chawan pleasing, I find the glaze at odds with the spirit of the form. A soft, undulating, hand friendly shape, glazed with an industrial, shiney, reflective black glaze which seems a bit hard on the eyes. The most important part of the chawan, the koudai/foot, is not shown thus no comment, therefore while it tries to enter the world of wabi-sabi, I feel it falls short.

JB made a number of points regarding toriawase, the selection of objects, of chanoyu, which seem to come from a fairly traditional interpretation. Traditional in this context being wabi-cha which Rikyu more or less codified some 400 years ago. Previous to that tea, in it's extreme, was served in golden rooms, in a spirit of exclusion and oppulence.

My point being things change.

One of the aspects of many chawan made by many contemporary potters (both in the USA, Japan, and elsewhere) is that those pots are conceived / intended to potentially sit on a pedestal with a nice white light aimed on it..... a piece that comes across to the viewer as a complete statement/object in and of itself. These pieces are the ones that easily get through the slide jury process because they just "pop" off the screen. The potters making them "know" that the chawan is the "star of the show" when it comes to teawares... and want to make sure that the object looks like a star.

These kinds of pieces are so "strong" that they do not often allow for the subtle interplay of the matcha with the form, nor the relationships with the other pieces in the Chanoyu setting to develop. They "hog" the visual conversation. The dominate the environment. They are complete BEFORE being placed with the other objects. They are complete BEFORE the matcha is whisked to a froth. They are complete after Chanoyu is over.

And so.... they tend to "fight" with the totality.

A couple of thoughts here with the first being that of intent. I'm not so sure that contemporary potters have the intent of pedestal work in mind. Also as shows in Japan for the professional ranks tend to be, for the most part, invitational in nature and not juried therefore I can't quite seem to find the need to make things "pop". To submit Japanese works to an American jurying process I feel is taking the work out of context.

I do feel however that, as John and I discussed on a different thread, that change is a foot in Japan at whatever pace it is occuring and that said that the dogu which people tend to collect here as well as the tea that is practiced here tend to be more traditional/historic/ and narrow in scope. With that in mind, many contemporary potters are seeking to move the vernacular of chanoyu ahead, to take the wonderful elements of older traditions and re-invent them which, in the eyes of some, may come across as loud. Historically, Furata Oribe did much the same thing, throwing his loud chawan into Rikyu's quiet wabi filled chashitsu. We are witnessing the process of change and the expression of a LIVING art form. Also, there are many "traditional" types of chawan that do "hog the visual conversation" i.e. Kyoyaki and Oribe with their bright colors and gaily painted patterns which shout "hey look at me!" I have been to many a chakai where the 1st and 2nd bowls were quite loud and fighting to gain attention between themselves before the procession of the more muted chawan began.

Toriawase is the process of composing in the tearoom and while one could choose all violins, making for beautiful music, it probably would be lacking depth, texture, and nuance. Hence the wide variety of objects found in a chakai range from the "loud" to the more muted and it is the skill of the tea master which determines how they all play. Geekgirls chawan might be loud in the sense that it hasn't yet been balanced out by it's surroundings/context.

That said, Japanese ceramics, for the most part, are subservient to their use and are completed in use which is decided by the participants.

Best,
R

Seeker...... keep on with your Seekernoyu!

[Geekgirl]

I chose the one that was more eye-popping in my ignorance.

Oops...... I don't think "in my ignorance" is really appropriate here. Don't put yourself and your sensibilities down quite so casually. I'm sorry if it made you feel thaqt way. It wasn't my intent to have this as a negative.... just to start a conversation about characteristics of work in a certain context and to answer a question from Michael.

Thanks. I wasn't really putting myself down. I think it's a really amazing chawan. Really, what I meant was due to my inexperience, it had never really occurred to me that such an eye-popping piece would be difficult to place in an ensemble. I still use and enjoy it as a stand-alone. It still has other excellent qualities, such as the balance and the feel of the clay and glazes.

I had never heard things expressed this way before, and it was a little lightbulb moment for me.

[Geekgirl]

While I find the form of Victoria's chawan pleasing, I find the glaze at odds with the spirit of the form. A soft, undulating, hand friendly shape, glazed with an industrial, shiney, reflective black glaze which seems a bit hard on the eyes. The most important part of the chawan, the koudai/foot, is not shown thus no comment, therefore while it tries to enter the world of wabi-sabi, I feel it falls short.

I guess this really illustrates personal preference. One of my first thoughts was that it was nice to see such a glossy glaze on a soft form. There's something very tactile about a super smooth surface that you can only get with a high glaze - kind of like bunny fur, or velvet. (But I'm weird like that. Ha! Seriously, bunnies? chawan? )

[Robert Fornell]

I guess this really illustrates personal preference.

そうですね！Yes it does!

Best to you!
R

[Janine]

The teapot makes great Yixing Red Tea. That's all I use it for. I experimented with a few different teas, but found that the Yixing Red is the perfect tea for that particular pot.

I am so jealous.

Victoria, I LOVE the black bowl. And there is something really special about the velvety matcha against black like this.

[Janine]

food dog?

Foo dog = Lucky dog

It did tickle my funny bone on how quickly TIM of the canine avatar came back on that one.

Of Course. Toki will not hesitate on anything canine related.

Laughing out loud!

[Janine]

While I find the form of Victoria's chawan pleasing, I find the glaze at odds with the spirit of the form. A soft, undulating, hand friendly shape, glazed with an industrial, shiney, reflective black glaze which seems a bit hard on the eyes. The most important part of the chawan, the koudai/foot, is not shown thus no comment, therefore while it tries to enter the world of wabi-sabi, I feel it falls short.

Interesting, ronin. But to me it goes to show you the eye of the beholder. When I saw it, it did not look industrial to me but soft - like black would fade into the background rather than shout itself out with the tea. Like the soft fur of a jet black animal. And I suppose I am reflecting on other black bowls I've seen that so beautifully create an effect with the green tea. To me it looked not industrial but smooth and velvety - a nice complement to the matcha form of smooth and velvety!

[Robert Fornell]

The face of change......

the face of change.jpg (34.85 KiB) Viewed 582 times

I love this image as to me it exemplifies so much about the living art of chanoyu in Japan today. Contemporary work in terms of shodo, kaki, chabana and chawan, used in a traditional setting by a venerable chajin who has their toriawase perfected.

Rikyu's classical wabi-cha is to this bit of Coltrane........beautiful!

Enjoy,
R

[IPT]

Here's a few new teapots and cups I just picked up from an ancient village. They are really filthy! I haven't had a chance to clean them yet. Just thought I'd share. They date from the Ming Dynasty, Qing Dynasty, and Republican Period. It'll take me hours to clean them, but that's half the fun. I love watching the colors appear from under years of grime.