Organic Tea

[Maitre_Tea]

There might be an obvious answer to this question, but it's not obvious to me. Why do you think that you need more organic leaf when brewing than usual. I mean, you could say that organic tea leaves might be smaller, but the organic produce I buy doesn't seem to deviate too much from non-organic produce.

[Tead Off]

I just checked the instructions I got with the Organic Uji Gokujo Sencha. Says 6 grams to 60 ml at 140F for 2 minutes first infusion. Second infusion the same. Third infusion - more water, hotter water and shorter infusion time. Describes this as "slightly" different from preparing other Senchas.

. With Sencha, they recommend 6g per 150ml.

You asked about Sencha. Most Sencha is 6g per 150ml give or take. The one you mention is the exception where they suggest to brew like Gyokoro.

[Chip]

There might be an obvious answer to this question, but it's not obvious to me. Why do you think that you need more organic leaf when brewing than usual. I mean, you could say that organic tea leaves might be smaller, but the organic produce I buy doesn't seem to deviate too much from non-organic produce.

I balked at this at first, but it makes sense, less elevated nutrient/fertilizer levels equate to less flavor.

Vendor recommendations pointed me in this direction, I tried it with less and then more. More was simply better. So a gram leaf per ounce of water seems about right.

[Ed]

I think it is the Gokujo Sencha in particular that is supposed to be brewed with a high leaf volume. They mention it "brews more along the lines of gyokuro" on the site. It's also an asamushi sencha and that style is often brewed with a lot of leaf.

I had the Magokoro (deep-steamed) shincha and did not have to use any extra leaf to get a good brew. In my experience, organic sencha does have a milder flavor. I think it is the lack of potent chemical fertilizers that accounts for the more mellow flavor.

[Tead Off]

Something to think about is this; organically grown tea should reflect the real nature of the tea relative to flavor and aroma. Nothing but nature touches the plants. Elevation and soil conditions will make a difference in character. But, adding chemicals either to the soil or directly to the plants, has to add something that is not intended to be there.

Most of us have become used to eating and drinking 'enriched' pesticide laden food. In fact, most of us don't even think about organic vs non organic. Can you imagine if all the posters here refused to drink non organic teas? It would send a message to vendors who in turn would begin shopping with organic growers. Slowly, the tea business could be turned into a more ecologically friendly business. This is probably a pipe dream but you have to begin somewhere.

[TokyoB]

Something to think about is this; organically grown tea should reflect the real nature of the tea relative to flavor and aroma. Nothing but nature touches the plants. Elevation and soil conditions will make a difference in character. But, adding chemicals either to the soil or directly to the plants, has to add something that is not intended to be there.

Most of us have become used to eating and drinking 'enriched' pesticide laden food. In fact, most of us don't even think about organic vs non organic. Can you imagine if all the posters here refused to drink non organic teas? It would send a message to vendors who in turn would begin shopping with organic growers. Slowly, the tea business could be turned into a more ecologically friendly business. This is probably a pipe dream but you have to begin somewhere.

+1

[Maitre_Tea]

Something to think about is this; organically grown tea should reflect the real nature of the tea relative to flavor and aroma. Nothing but nature touches the plants. Elevation and soil conditions will make a difference in character. But, adding chemicals either to the soil or directly to the plants, has to add something that is not intended to be there.

Most of us have become used to eating and drinking 'enriched' pesticide laden food. In fact, most of us don't even think about organic vs non organic. Can you imagine if all the posters here refused to drink non organic teas? It would send a message to vendors who in turn would begin shopping with organic growers. Slowly, the tea business could be turned into a more ecologically friendly business. This is probably a pipe dream but you have to begin somewhere.

I think you're totally right, and even though it's going to cost me more leaf per brewing, I'm hoping to buy organic teas from here on out. I'm also curious why organic teas would taste mellower than non-organic teas, since some of the organic apples I've eaten are more superior to conventional apples. Of course, the mellow taste could be a plus. How do people find organic teas stack up to their conventional counterparts. I would be interested in doing a comparison tasting.

[Maitre_Tea]

The organic tea I ordered from O-Cha finally arrived. I'm eager to sample them, and I'll report back to base about my findings. Unfortunately, I don't have any good-quality conventional Sencha to compare to.

[Janine]

Thanks for the follow-up. I hadn't heard of Tillerman before. I had once purchased an organic Oriental Beauty (bai hao) from HouDe and the farmer was also a Mr. Chen. Looks like it might be the same person. It looks like Tillerman carries a few of Mr. Chen's teas. Glad to see it. Thanks for making me aware of this source.

You're welcome

BTW today I am trying their Yixing Gongfu Black (which I don't think is organic but I just don't remember right now) - something new to me, what people grow and drink in Yixing. It's delicious as far as I am concerned.

Re organic and taste: I quite find that organic produce has better taste. I think it may be a myth that organic tea requires more leaf, etc. But the only thing to do is try it. As I say, Roy Fong is trying hard to create more organic teas (including jasmine flower growth) in China because he thinks it's better tasting (and proper tasting) tea

I have enjoyed the organics I have had. It is perhaps a reflection of the people doing early experimentation if the taste was not what was expected - as more experienced growers become organic this will probably change - is already changing. Perhaps. It's a plausible hypothesis anyway. Time will tell. I suppose also the soil will change over time, and we must see how that affects the tea.

I suppose what we really want are people who are meticulous in their growth and love what they are doing.

[bambooforest]

As has been mentioned, organic teas are sometimes lighter because they're barred from the more convenient artificial fertilizers and thus must rely upon traditional methods.

I think organic teas, potentially, can be just as robust as their conventional counterparts--but usually aren't.

I spoke to a tea expert on the phone... don't want to say his name in the event I misquote him in any way.

But he told me that in China, organic farms have been coming a long way recently. So... I think part of it is simply that producing organic tea well is simply more difficult, which makes perfect sense; you have to use traditional methods which require, I think, more effort.

So, in a nut shell, I think organic teas can come close and sometimes match the intensity of non-organic counterparts. But I think it's also quite possible that many organic farms simply don't do the best job they can even while their teas remain completely organic.

The above is my gathered assessment on the issue. I'm no expert.

As far as produce such as apples. Yes, true, I've heard it before that produce does taste better when organic. But tea is not apples and nor is it grapes. So... it's a completely different animal and there's no crossover.

Cheers,

Bamboo Forest

[iannon]

just received some Organic Kumamoto Sencha Yabe Supreme from Yuuki in the mail. brewed some up and it was delicious.. full of umami to me anyway.
I read on one organic farmers web site that I got some sencha from recently about the theory that the chemical nitrogen heavy fertilizers increase the teanin levels which are said to give the tea that greater umami. for instance his tea had 3 times LESS teanin than a regularly non-organic fertilized tea. What his tea has to make up for there is done with lower levels of caffeine and Epigallocatechin gallate, Epicatechin gallate. all of which add bitter flavors..so less umami but less bitter to even it out.

[Ed]

It is worth noting that epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) and l-theanine are desirable and are two of the reasons people drink tea for health benefits.

[Chip]

So organics have less of "everything?" Which is logical actually.

Perhaps this is why one organic vendor strongly recommended that I use MORE than 1 gram leaf per ounce water.

[Tead Off]

Again, it is what you get used to that you base all comparisons on. The unnatural levels of any chemicals are going to affect flavor. This doesn't necessarily make a tea better. Plus, I think most people drink tea because they like it, not because of the health benefits.

[Maitre_Tea]

I've only tasted my organic samples fro O-Cha once, and I plan on trying them again today and taking some more comprehensive tasting notes. They recommend about 6 grams for a 300 ml kyusu, which seemed just like the perfect amount to me.

I've actually been using the same amount of leaf with the one conventional Sencha that I have, so maybe at least for these teas the amount of leaf used for both organic and conventional is the same. Didn't notice a mellower flavor, but again, I'm comparing this to crap Sencha that I bought, so maybe I'll notice something different once I get my hands on some nicer quality conventional stuff