Chao Zhou Teapot?

[TIM]

Thanks again to Chris for another great visual doc. and facts. Always informative and helpful to my ongoing eduction with Zisha.

My other question then is: How and if true, does Chao Zhou zhuni has the same shrinkage marks as Yixing zhuni?

[Salsero]

The three pots from Imen have arrived and they are great and functional.



I timed the pour of the one on the left, full of tea, it easily pours 100 ml in 7 seconds. The exteriors are satin smooth and very shiny. The interiors are rough and show light grooves from being thrown. Based on this little experience, Chao Zhou pots do seem to be a bit different from Yixing. All three of these pots have the same mark on the bottom so I suppose they all come from the same factory or workshop.

[TIM]

How are their "ring tone"? Clear like a bell

[Salsero]

No, they don't have a great tone. A little more musical than many of my pots, but definitely not like a bell. None of my pots ring like the ones in Guang's video.

[Herb_Master]

The three pots from Imen have arrived and they are great and functional.

I have not spotted these on the Tea Habitat site, was the purchase arranged via e-mail ? Or have you bought all her stock, and they are now removed from the catalogue?

[Salsero]

I have not spotted these on the Tea Habitat site

They never were on the site. I only contacted her because Will mentioned that she often has some around. As far as I know, all three pictured above are still in her stock.

By all means email Imen at tea@teahabitat.com . She is very accessible and pleasant via email ... bends over backwards too. I have never seen teapots so carefully wrapped before!

[Salsero]

As Ms Kita has pointed out in the Show Off thread and as Imen just emailed me, she received a whole bunch of new Chao Zhou pots yesterday and they are posted to her website:

http://www.teahabitat.com/store/index.p ... ex&cPath=5

[Ms Kita B]

Just received mine today. I'm currently following the directions of Imen and hopefully it's ready tomorrow to be used. I'll report back

[Ms Kita B]

So I finally got around to testing out my pot. It is so beautiful! Smoother/shinier than I expected with a ball filter. After soaking for 20 mins I filled with about 1/4 the of Da Wu Zi. The pour is rather fast but I did make the mistake of putting my thumb on the lid as I pour. It's habit but not the smartest thing because the pot is so thin of course it gets HOT!

Now on to the most important part, the effects it had on the tea. I've been drinking this tea for about a week brewing in a gaiwan and I have noticed slight changes. The tea seems to be thicker and the nutty taste more pronounced in the 1st brew. I didn't taste the nutty flavor until the 3rd brew with the gaiwan. There was another taste dancing on my tongue that wasn't present with the gaiwan but I've yet to put my finger on it.

I'm still experimenting so hopefully I'll have more to report in the future. Overall I really like this pot. If you are a dan cong lover like me it's worth a try and it's only $39! I hope to hear from others that own one.

[gingkoseto]

No one seems to have verified answer to Zhuni/Hongni, the fight happened even among great masters such as Gu JingZhou vs Han QiLou..

Truth is back then Zhuni = Hongni, or they have called Zhuni as Xiao Hongni and Hongni as Hongtu. There is no official Yixing glossary as clay itself is natural composition of lots of mixture of minerals..

Zhuni mountain called Zhauzhuang, also have lots of different composition of red clays, there is Zhuazhuang Nen Hongni, Xiao Hongni, Zhuni, Jinhuang Zhuni, Huang Shi Huang etc..and potters would mix em together for better result

But what today's calling 'Hongni' type can be found lots of areas of China, Japan, Taiwan or even Korea..and its composition for example, no different from Zini. Iron amount is no higher, shrinks no more, contains lots of minerals while Zhuni is of pure yellow-ish iron-rich powder.

So what today's calling 'Zhuni' should satisfy few conditions,

Amount of iron (over 10%)
High shrinkage (over 20% therefore, wrinkle)
Crystallization (metal sound)

These characteritics give a potter a headache and owner a pleasure, more iron content gives stronger color tone, more shrinkage gives more wrinkles (=higher rate of breakage in a kiln) and is a trait of how delicate the clay is. Crystallized clay sounds higher when tapping and glossy, but Zhuni automatically gets crystallized at low temperature because of its delicate and pure nature.

These clays were found from Zhaozhuang mountain mostly, and recently Xiao Mei Yao, Huanglong mountain, Hufu etc..

Correct me if I'm wrong..

That's a lot of good information. Thanks!

[Maitre_Tea]

Some information from Imen about the differences between Chao Zhou and Yixing...

"Chao Zhou Clay has higher iron content than Yixing Zhuni, the composition of Chao zhou clay is mainly iron and quartz, hence the bright red with consistency. Firing temperature is between 1160 to 1180 degrees C. Shrinkage of CZ is barely 12% from wet clay to finished firing,6% from dried mold to finished firing. Therefore very easy to work with, that's also why cz lids are much tighter than Yixing, it's the reason why tea won't get moldy for 10 days. Small shrinkage also allow potters to make thin and large open pots, hence perfect for the size and sensitivity of Dan Cong teas.

I don't know Yixing enough to provide such information. I believe Yixing zhuni contains more varieties of mineral than CZ, that's also why Yixing zhuni colors vary a wide range of red compare to CZ."

[Tead Off]

Some information from Imen about the differences between Chao Zhou and Yixing...

"Chao Zhou Clay has higher iron content than Yixing Zhuni, the composition of Chao zhou clay is mainly iron and quartz, hence the bright red with consistency. Firing temperature is between 1160 to 1180 degrees C. Shrinkage of CZ is barely 12% from wet clay to finished firing,6% from dried mold to finished firing. Therefore very easy to work with, that's also why cz lids are much tighter than Yixing, it's the reason why tea won't get moldy for 10 days. Small shrinkage also allow potters to make thin and large open pots, hence perfect for the size and sensitivity of Dan Cong teas.

I don't know Yixing enough to provide such information. I believe Yixing zhuni contains more varieties of mineral than CZ, that's also why Yixing zhuni colors vary a wide range of red compare to CZ."

The only thing that concerns me about any clay, anywhere in the world, is 'Is it pure or does it have additives'? If Zhaozhou clay is pure, then there is no reason to think it won't brew good tea. So far, no one has answered this question. And, so far, there is no evidence of testing Zhaozhou clay for it's iron content. Anyone can claim anything about these pots but I'd like to see a clay analysis. It's an easy thing to do and if sellers lie Imen make a statement like this, she has to back it up with lab tests.

[TIM]

....The only thing that concerns me about any clay, anywhere in the world, is 'Is it pure or does it have additives'? If Zhaozhou clay is pure, then there is no reason to think it won't brew good tea. So far, no one has answered this question. And, so far, there is no evidence of testing Zhaozhou clay for it's iron content. Anyone can claim anything about these pots but I'd like to see a clay analysis. It's an easy thing to do and if sellers lie Imen make a statement like this, she has to back it up with lab tests.

..."With due respect, how can we know what pure clay is? Certainly, it is not what a group of tea drinkers agree it is or from a lab test statement . If we are honest with ourselves, we don't really know what anything is, or what pure clay means?"....

[Maitre_Tea]

Some information from Imen about the differences between Chao Zhou and Yixing...

"Chao Zhou Clay has higher iron content than Yixing Zhuni, the composition of Chao zhou clay is mainly iron and quartz, hence the bright red with consistency. Firing temperature is between 1160 to 1180 degrees C. Shrinkage of CZ is barely 12% from wet clay to finished firing,6% from dried mold to finished firing. Therefore very easy to work with, that's also why cz lids are much tighter than Yixing, it's the reason why tea won't get moldy for 10 days. Small shrinkage also allow potters to make thin and large open pots, hence perfect for the size and sensitivity of Dan Cong teas.

I don't know Yixing enough to provide such information. I believe Yixing zhuni contains more varieties of mineral than CZ, that's also why Yixing zhuni colors vary a wide range of red compare to CZ."

The only thing that concerns me about any clay, anywhere in the world, is 'Is it pure or does it have additives'? If Zhaozhou clay is pure, then there is no reason to think it won't brew good tea. So far, no one has answered this question. And, so far, there is no evidence of testing Zhaozhou clay for it's iron content. Anyone can claim anything about these pots but I'd like to see a clay analysis. It's an easy thing to do and if sellers lie Imen make a statement like this, she has to back it up with lab tests.

I'm pretty sure that lab tests like this are probably expensive. I'll report back when I have the disposable income to conclusively prove this. Or maybe you can put forth such a test? Or maybe we have a geologist amongst our ranks here on TeaChat. I'd actually be very interested in seeing the results. I think that the questions you point out are valid for any vendor out there, and I don't know of any vendors off the top of my head that can publish conclusive scientific results.

And if they can, than maybe someone will question the scientific quality of the test, or any bias that might be involved, or maybe the possibility of a false positive, etc. I'd be super-impressed with any vendor that can provide this information though, but it'd probably be crazy expensive, since they'd need to do clay analysis on all their products, and their products will def. be more expensive too.

I think my advice is: Buy from reputable sources, because reputable sources are less likely to lie to you. They still can, but the chance is smaller. Imen has a nice credentials amongst the tea-drinkers here so I trust what she's selling.

I'm buying one of these pots too, and hopefully I can taste a difference personally. Granted, it might be a placebo effect, but if I think it's better, than I'm happy. The pots themselves aren't too expensive, when compared to other vendors, so even if I'm not impressed, I still get a pretty sweet deal out of it.

[TIM]

....The only thing that concerns me about any clay, anywhere in the world, is 'Is it pure or does it have additives'? If Zhaozhou clay is pure, then there is no reason to think it won't brew good tea. So far, no one has answered this question. And, so far, there is no evidence of testing Zhaozhou clay for it's iron content. Anyone can claim anything about these pots but I'd like to see a clay analysis. It's an easy thing to do and if sellers lie Imen make a statement like this, she has to back it up with lab tests.

..."With due respect, how can we know what pure clay is? Certainly, it is not what a group of tea drinkers agree it is or from a lab test statement . If we are honest with ourselves, we don't really know what anything is, or what pure clay means?"....

I am quoting on your own quote Tead off.