Gyokuro Hon vs. Kame

[Chip]

Chip, I'm not even sure that I get 1 serving of 2 ounces. I think mine must average more like 45ml and that's using 8g of leaf.

How much water do you start with, sorry if you I missed that.

Yeah the higher the leaf to water ratio, the less output you will get as the increased leaf sucks up lots of water, especially with the first 2 steeps. Anyone ever hear of "drop tea?"

Like many TCers, I go with 2:1 leaf to water ratio for better Gyokuro such as Kame. I am certain I could go higher with the Kame, might try it at some point. But I figure 5 grams per 2.5 ounces will get me 10 sessions exactly. So if anything, I would use less water and the same amount of leaf.

BTW, had the Kame for the first time in too long this AM. This new batch is as good if not better than memory of Kame past. I hate it when a memory is better than a repurchase ... not with the Kame.

[Tead Off]

Chip,

I'm not sure how much water I start with. I don't measure, only pour into the pot when the temp is right and fill the small teapot. I'm just eyeballing the amount of tea I get out of it. But, I do notice a richer taste if I am using more leaf per serving and that is why I think Ippodo recommends such a high volume of leaf.

[Oni]

You are not alone with this eyeballing thing, I didn`t measure anything until I got a scale, but the water volume depends on the teaware, I know I need to fill the houhin until below the last row of holes, and it should fill the yuzamashi to full capacity, I am only guessing that it is around 100 to 120 ml of water, I use 10 grams comfortably with that amount, gyokuro should be very strong and full bodied, it should fill your mouth with taste with one drop, therefore it si drunk very slowly, it is like a tea essence, a concentrate. Some high quality gyokuro can be as sweet as honey (the theanine concentration gives this illusion, you feel that it is very sweet).

[Mrs. Chip]

BTW, had the Kame for the first time in too long this AM. This new batch is as good if not better than memory of Kame past. I hate it when a memory is better than a repurchase ... not with the Kame.

Well, this Gyokuro from O-Cha was absolutely delightfully delish yesterday when Chip shared this with me. I has been soooo long since we had a really good sencha, as we have been drinking dribs and drabs waiting for Shincha.

Gyo is one of my faves and this one rocks.

[thediminished5th]

I plan on trying the Kame sometime in the future. I think I better stick with O-Cha's Yame until I figure out how to brew a good cup on a consistent basis!

[olivierco]

Kame Jiru Shi and Tsuru Jiru Shi are easy to brew. You can't go wrong starting with 7g 100ml 55°C (130°F) 80s (10s 15s for subsequent steeps). You might end up liking it with more leaf.

[Chip]

Kame Jiru Shi and Tsuru Jiru Shi are easy to brew. You can't go wrong starting with 7g 100ml 55°C (130°F) 80s (10s 15s for subsequent steeps). You might end up liking it with more leaf.

... but I would not go that rich with the Yame Gyokuro from O-Cha.

[AdamMY]

This thread always makes me want Gyokuro. Considering I have 3-4 Sessions left of all my Japanese Greens... And my first order of Shincha will hopefully be arriving within a Week or so... Its time to drink up!

[tmorten]

What temperature have you guys been brewing the Yame Ultimate gyokuro from Zencha at? The website says to brew the first steep at 100 F? For successive steeps would you just brew about 10 degress warmer like normal gyokuro? Would the steep times also be similar to the Kame or would you steep longer?

[Chip]

What temperature have you guys been brewing the Yame Ultimate gyokuro from Zencha at? The website says to brew the first steep at 100 F? For successive steeps would you just brew about 10 degress warmer like normal gyokuro? Would the steep times also be similar to the Kame or would you steep longer?

The Yame definitely seems more temp sensitive than Kame, IMHO.

Yeah, increase temps with each steep and times similar to Kame. I think I had jumped up 20 degrees for the second steep.

Be willing to experiment a bit with this one.

[mang-en]

i was lucky enough to try a small sample of the 2008 gyokuro competition winner from yame (hoshino to be exact), bassaro was selling it, but i secured some through a friend in NYC.

brewing wise we used 10 grams, as instructed from the grower, with about 90ml of water. we brewed at about 130 F for 2.5 mins. The water was almost completely clear (shiro mizu, or white water, is what this is called) and i was sure i had made a mistake. But of course, the tea was the most divine brew i have had. It was velvety, with a tang of sea brine and very buttery.

i have not had one as nice since, but have had a single estate from Hoshino-seichaen that was close. I just bought their competition contender for 2009 but have not opened it yet, i will report when i have.

[Rithmomachy]

Would the "butteriness" I experienced the other day by accident be typical of Gyokuro?

A lot of the words we use are not like a color chart that we can all match up and easliy agree upon.

Butteriness to you might equate to soupy to me, or to seaweed broth to TO. We could be experiencing similar sensations but it is not black and white.

But there are similar or common elements that we are hitting upon.

Of course each gyo will be different as well.

I've never had Gyokuro, but after reading this thread, I really want to try it! It seems to me that with something as precious as Gyokuro, you would want to establish some good descriptors so that people know what they are buying. I'd hate to spend money on my first Gyokuro and get something that doesn't appeal to me. Obviously, solving this problem should be a top priority for Tea Chatters.

It seems to me that the only way to establish a common vocabulary is through a comprehensive series of group tastings that will give us the opportunity to record and compare notes. I suppose we could arrange some sort of gathering to try different samples or . . . (Do you see where I'm going with this, Chip? ) . . . OTTI!

[Chip]

or . . . (Do you see where I'm going with this, Chip? ) . . . OTTI!

Yezzzz ...

Anything is possible. I did a gyo tasting with premo leaf a few years ago. Around 400 grams of $$$, but it was fun indeed.

[JRS22]

I second the vote for a gyokuro OTTI. Of course it would have to cost more than $7, but would be well worth it.

[JRS22]

Would 2009 Gyokuro purchased now from a vendor like O-Cha have the benefits of aging that you describe? I have my eye on his Yame Gyokuro as a good gyokuro for a beginner.

When I read this before I had wanted to comment, but forgot. Then today's Gyokuro reminded me.

There is some merit to this, though admittedly I do not know the specifics. I had the Yame Hon from Zencha 2X. The first time, I had accidently aged it for at least half a year, it was quite sweet and very enjoyable. The second time, I opened it right away and was not as pleased, it lacked the pure and mellow sweet character of the first time, but I did not know why.

Today I had Suimei Gyokuro from Den's. When I opened this well over 6 months ago, I was not singing praises. I purposely set it aside and finally revisited it this morning. Wow, what a difference! The first steep was wonderful, sweet and lots of the Gyo character that I am fond of.

I think that aging definitely can help with some recently purchased gyos that might not be pleasing with your first attempts. So, do not toss the gyo that fails to please with the first tasting, set it aside and revisit it in 6 months or more.

This has confirmed one thing that I already suspected, I have NO need for Shincha Gyokuro. If I got it, I would likely try it, then set it aside for the 6 months anyway.