Porosity of modern vs pre-60s Yixing

[chrl42]

If you've read Huang Jian Liang's Xing Xi Zhu Ni, you are more motivated to know about certainty of history and inspection of Zhuni.

If you've read Zhu Ze Wei's Yixing Zisha Kuangliao, you'll get the idea of clay composition, mine location, kinds of clays etc

Why my 'experts' didn't disagree or fight? Because time has changed. Seeing Yixing teapot is same as Puerh, in 90's everyone fought and discuss about Puerh, things have been filtered, 'agreement' appeared, collctors' unity strenghens.

It's true, Yixing teapot is hard to know. Someone's good at antique Zhuni, someone's good at Factory-1 pots, someone's good at masters' pot, myself never witnessed a person who mastered all of them. However, each have respect for each, not because these experts are know-it-all, because they have a belief and share agreements. If someone ask others to give up or sigh because of one essay, then it's like disgracing Yixing collectors of China and Taiwan.

Curiosity of Yixing teapot is getting bigger and bigger in China, as internet users increase and more books published, more Chinese are being informed and the market will see its hayday. Then is it right for English-users not to follow and become satisfied with cheap yixing and gaiwan, without knowledge about it?

[Tead Off]

If you've read Huang Jian Liang's Xing Xi Zhu Ni, you are more motivated to know about certainty of history and inspection of Zhuni.

If you've read Zhu Ze Wei's Yixing Zisha Kuangliao, you'll get the idea of clay composition, mine location, kinds of clays etc

Why my 'experts' didn't disagree or fight? Because time has changed. Seeing Yixing teapot is same as Puerh, in 90's everyone fought and discuss about Puerh, things have been filtered, 'agreement' appeared, collctors' unity strenghens.

It's true, Yixing teapot is hard to know. Someone's good at antique Zhuni, someone's good at Factory-1 pots, someone's good at masters' pot, myself never witnessed a person who mastered all of them. However, each have respect for each, not because these experts are know-it-all, because they have a belief and share agreements. If someone ask others to give up or sigh because of one essay, then it's like disgracing Yixing collectors of China and Taiwan.

Curiosity of Yixing teapot is getting bigger and bigger in China, as internet users increase and more books published, more Chinese are being informed and the market will see its hayday. Then is it right for English-users not to follow and become satisfied with cheap yixing and gaiwan, without knowledge about it?

Outside of China, there is little possibility of having enough opportunity to discuss and learn for most people. The opportunity to see and handle all kinds of yixing is limited. You are lucky to be in the position to be around others and see things in person. Books only take you a short distance. Plus, many Chinese books are not translated into other languages or are very hard to find. It is not easy for foreigners to learn. One must see and handle many pots to get any kind of feeling for this subject. Don't you agree?

[gingkoseto]

Seeing Yixing teapot is same as Puerh, in 90's everyone fought and discuss about Puerh, things have been filtered, 'agreement' appeared, collctors' unity strenghens.

This is very well said!

Curiosity of Yixing teapot is getting bigger and bigger in China, as internet users increase and more books published, more Chinese are being informed and the market will see its hayday. Then is it right for English-users not to follow and become satisfied with cheap yixing and gaiwan, without knowledge about it?

I think this is largely determined by market size, rather than individual buyers. When the market size is larger (I guess it will get larger eventually), one may see his friend buying a same teapot as his with 1/2 price, or a much better teapot at the same price. That's how buyers get more savvy and sellers get more competitive.

One must see and handle many pots to get any kind of feeling for this subject.

This is very well said too! I think both you and Charlie have very nice shopping environment to learn about yixing Currently many people have to learn through each purchase, then the "tuition" is really high!

[Tead Off]

Gingko,

My shopping environment is certainly better than many others but cannot compare to places like China, Hong Kong, Taiwan. I don't know of any collectors here and the dealers cannot be relied on for expertise. Even KL and Singapore have better collector environments than Bangkok. There is little tea culture here, just some old families from Chao Zhou with nothing special as far as Yixing.

[chrl42]

If you've read Huang Jian Liang's Xing Xi Zhu Ni, you are more motivated to know about certainty of history and inspection of Zhuni.

If you've read Zhu Ze Wei's Yixing Zisha Kuangliao, you'll get the idea of clay composition, mine location, kinds of clays etc

Why my 'experts' didn't disagree or fight? Because time has changed. Seeing Yixing teapot is same as Puerh, in 90's everyone fought and discuss about Puerh, things have been filtered, 'agreement' appeared, collctors' unity strenghens.

It's true, Yixing teapot is hard to know. Someone's good at antique Zhuni, someone's good at Factory-1 pots, someone's good at masters' pot, myself never witnessed a person who mastered all of them. However, each have respect for each, not because these experts are know-it-all, because they have a belief and share agreements. If someone ask others to give up or sigh because of one essay, then it's like disgracing Yixing collectors of China and Taiwan.

Curiosity of Yixing teapot is getting bigger and bigger in China, as internet users increase and more books published, more Chinese are being informed and the market will see its hayday. Then is it right for English-users not to follow and become satisfied with cheap yixing and gaiwan, without knowledge about it?

Outside of China, there is little possibility of having enough opportunity to discuss and learn for most people. The opportunity to see and handle all kinds of yixing is limited. You are lucky to be in the position to be around others and see things in person. Books only take you a short distance. Plus, many Chinese books are not translated into other languages or are very hard to find. It is not easy for foreigners to learn. One must see and handle many pots to get any kind of feeling for this subject. Don't you agree?

It's only you can say if you haven't heard about Zhu Ze Wei or Huang Jian Liang，

Zhu Ze Wei, 'man of Yixing clay' has been dedicating his life only for Yixing clay, he's known as no.1 man about clay solely, if you don't trust man like them, tell me who else I should? Otherwise, they wouldn't have guts to come with 400-page books filled with words, in the time 1.3 billion eyes are watching.

My comment on Dragon kiln is based on Han Qi Lou's Dictionary of Yixing teapot, 94 page. "Ming dynasty's dragon kiln is still preserved, and still being used". Han Qi Lou is vice-president of Yixing Zisha Association. He's praised with Gu Jing Zhou, for volumizing Yixing teapot as of now.

Time's not like old day, someone like Deng Shi Hai won't dare to publish book full of myth, as knowledge expended and unity strangthened. You said about distance, what distance are you talking about? Telling mine location, sorting samples of clay needs a distance? Telling dragon kiln is still being used needs a distance?

You are lucky to be in the position to be around others and see things in person.

You know..I moved to China not that I was born in China, so it's not a luck it's intention.

[Tead Off]

Charlie,

I think you are not understanding some of the language I use, maybe due to translation and figurative speech. Distance is figurative, not literal. I mean reading a book is not the same as having the experience of seeing and handling the real things. I'm not saying books are not valuable, just limited. If I went out to buy antiques with just book knowledge, I would make huge mistakes.

[chrl42]

Charlie,

I think you are not understanding some of the language I use, maybe due to translation and figurative speech. Distance is figurative, not literal. I mean reading a book is not the same as having the experience of seeing and handling the real things. I'm not saying books are not valuable, just limited. If I went out to buy antiques with just book knowledge, I would make huge mistakes.

No one buys antiques just trusting books, not that I've witness. Books are to add to one of helpful experiences. If one doesn't have flexibility of filtering, he's a failure of life before the yixings.

Problem is, your speech is way too figurative, you said experience is important so said share the experiences. You said experts do fight often so I gave examples of books, waiting you might point out defects. You said book has limited quality so I commented how important figures they are in yixing communities (did you ever read that books anyway) so I said 'refusal of discussion', cos it's a minimum quality needed for basic communication.

Whatever your tips or experience, I say, bring it on. If my comments were solely 'my opinions' you are wrong. I do have my 'experts' too who don't fight and share agreements. Just don't use your experience to generalize the whole Yixing communities

C

[Tead Off]

I'm not arguing with you or diminishing what you are saying. I don't know why you think that.

I give my opinions and advice all the time here. Some agree, some don't. I'm not sure what you want me to say. Reading is good, but, handling is best. What can I say about handling on a computer? How can I compare one pot with another on a computer? This is the kind of subject you need a teacher to show you what to look for. This is obvious, isn't it? You didn't stay in Korea to read books and look at pictures of teapots. I am agreeing with you.

[chrl42]

While walking out on the street and taking a deep breathe, I realized how I misacted, some of I did was unnecessary, I should spend more time studying and handling pots, than argueing with someone who has different idea with me, I understand your meaning.

Hope to see more pleasant discussions with Teadoff in future, you forgive me, wouldn't you?

[Tead Off]

While walking out on the street and taking a deep breathe, I realized how I misacted, some of I did was unnecessary, I should spend more time studying and handling pots, than argueing with someone who has different idea with me, I understand your meaning.

Hope to see more pleasant discussions with Teadoff in future, you forgive me, wouldn't you?

I'll think about it.

[auhckw]

[gingkoseto]

Oh! That's lovely! All three of you!

[gingkoseto]

I think another difference in people's views of yixing is how much of artistic perfectionists they are. Many people see yixing no less than sculpture works, and many others see yixing as a kitchen/tea room appliance. That makes a big difference on how much on would delve into it and how much one wants to pay for it. I think I am in between but closer to the latter.

One of my recent purchase was made in this logic - after clay/shape/seller all seem passable to me, what's in my mind was, oh! small 100ml pot, broad, well posed spout --> must be a fast pouring one... besides, golf-ball strainer ---> must be good for some easy-to-clog type of tea... Duan Ni clay, how much stained would it get... As you can see, most of my questions and thoughts are from the practical views.

It's like when I view a modern photography work, my questions are always, "what's the subject in this photo?" "how did you manage to make it?" "platinum! must be expensive huh?" "when..." "where..." "how long..." Then my photography friend would say, you asked all wrong questions!

[ajiaojiao]

wonderful !

[pokute]

I'm a materials scientist by education and many years experience. I also fired a pottery kiln for two years as a full-time job, and spent a month visiting kilns all over Japan in the days before wood firing was all but abolished. I know quite a bit about wood (and oil) fired noborigama and anagama (Japanese terms for the two main divisions of "climbing" kilns, the first being multi-chambered, the second being a single large chamber - generally speaking), and about clay bodies, glaze formulation, firing and forming techniques. I have handled a few fine yixing pots, and a whole mess of crappy yixing pots. If anybody has any specific questions I would be happy to address them.