Kuroraku chawan from Hibiki-an: good value?

[Oni]

When buying a chawan take into consideration it`s functionality, it should be of comfortable size for vigorous whisking, and for beginners sooth bottom, and the glaze should be of kamogawa river stone, that makes the chawan non stick, so the tea doesn`t stick to the bottom, mine has all these qualities, the rest is artistical value, I wanted to build a four season set, generally japanese tea ceremony usues diffrent teaware for diffrent seasons.

[JBaymore]

....... generally japanese tea ceremony usues diffrent teaware for diffrent seasons.

And also the teaware frequenlty varies as it is selected to fit the personalities of the specific person/people invited, the intended mood of the particular gathering, and the time of day. (As well as whether it is indoors or outdoors.)

best,

..................john

[fire_snake]

When buying a chawan take into consideration it`s functionality, it should be of comfortable size for vigorous whisking, and for beginners sooth bottom, and the glaze should be of kamogawa river stone, that makes the chawan non stick, so the tea doesn`t stick to the bottom, mine has all these qualities, the rest is artistical value, I wanted to build a four season set, generally japanese tea ceremony usues diffrent teaware for diffrent seasons.

Good point, Oni. I've seen "summer" raku ware. A summer bowl from what I can tell isn't as deep. Is this correct?

[Chip]

Good point, Oni. I've seen "summer" raku ware. A summer bowl from what I can tell isn't as deep. Is this correct?

Yes, generally wider and shallower.

[Seeker]

Very Cool and interesting topic!
Welcome Christian!
Love that 2000 cranes site. Whew!
I'm just picking myself up off the floor from sticker and body shock, resulting loss of balance, and subsequent fall.
As I gazed at some of those gorgeous pieces, and after I sopped the drool from my chin, I found myself reminded sometimes of Robert Fornell's work, which I love (tho currently there's not much available on his etsy site). On the artists section here on TC he goes by 'ronin ceramurai'.
And of course I love, love, love Cory & Michael's work.
I can hardly wait to see what chawan you acquire.
When you do, I sincerely hope you'll share some images and some matcha with us on Today's MatchaWan?
Cheers!
ps- JB could answer this best, but I'd be very concerned about lead content in any vintage raku pieces.

[JBaymore]

ps- JB could answer this best, but I'd be very concerned about lead content in any vintage raku pieces.

Lead is a component of Japanese raku glazes..... higher in aka raku (red raku). Kuro (black) raku is fired a bit hotter so it needs a lower amount of lead to flux the silica.

When I last checked (but it has been a while), in Japan there is/was a lead use exemption written into law for ceramics usage specifically for raku wares and overglaze enamels. The ceramics heritage is considered very important in Japan. What's a little lead when you have traditional raku wares or Kutani red overglaze?

Which brings up an interesting question, now that I am thinking about it............

In the USA the FDA restricts the usage of lead compounds in ceramic wares to certain release (leaching) levels. California has even more restrictive release levels in law. It is my understanding that any ceramic imports for sale in this country are supposed to conform to these standards.

How are the in-country / in state shops selling raku dealing with these US laws?

For the overseas online shops, is it a "technicality" that the purchase is actually made in Japan..... and the package being sent into the USA is not for resale in the USA but is going to an end user?

I have no idea.

HOWEVER, ................

Lead release is dependent upon the "softness" (leachability) of the glaze, the PH of the leachate (tea in this case), the amount of time the leachate is in contact with the surface, and the amount of surface that is actually in contact with the leachate. Then in toxicology there is also the issue of frequency, duration, and intensity of exposure.

Matcha in a chawan does not stay there long and there is little of it in a chawan. The Ph of strong green tea runs down in about the 4-5 range so it is not a particularly strong acid (vinegar and lemon juice are in the 2 range).

As for the tiny invisible layer of lead oxide that develops over time on the outside of lead glaze wares sitting around (yes... this happens), normal Chanoyu preparation requires the ritual (and actual) cleaning of the bowl before use. So that gets rid of the most bio-available lead when the bowl has sat around unused for a long while.

So for the occasional matcha drinker or the infrequent Chanoyu participant... I think the amount of lead that one would be exposed to from a raku bowl in occasional use might be pretty minimal. (Generations of Japanese, some of the longest-lived people in the world, tend to support this thought.)

For people who make matcha in a raku chawan a daily or multi-a-day affair....... that would be of far more concern.

Ahem... seeker...... ????

best,

..............john

[fire_snake]

Thanks for the support, folks. I really appreciate it and it really makes me feel welcome around here.

Apropos of lead: very appropriate, since I was about to shell out for a Taisho period Kuroraku chawan to drink out of. Then I woke up and realized that 1) subjecting it to even more use really wouldn't increase its wabi that much or my experience of it - it might in fact decrease the item in value unnecessarily, and 2) drinking out of such an old chawan on a regular basis might not be such a good idea in terms of my health. I mean, I can clean it, but then I'd always be worried about what else might be getting into my matcha. And after spending money on that I wouldn't be bothered to incur a further expense by having it chemically analyzed. There's plenty of time to drink out of a Taisho-period raku, but now I wanted something hand-made, quality, for everyday use.

I settled on a Kuroraku chawan made by an unknown master craftsman - virtually no information about him in English, and very little about him in Japanese. He is an old man, has a kiln in Nara, and has showcased a few of his wares in the recent past. I've sourced the chawan from David Callens of J-vessels. The price was right, the piece is lovely, and it's contemporary enough (apparently) to use regularly without any impact to my health. Worst case, I can have it analyzed, but I don't think that will be necessary.

I'll post photos soon.

I'd like to thank everyone for their kind help and patience in answering my questions.

[Seeker]

...For people who make matcha in a raku chawan a daily or multi-a-day affair....... that would be of far more concern.
Ahem... seeker...... ????

( )

[Seeker]

Thank you John - you rock!

ps - the only raku I've got are by Pagasari, and he doesn't use lead (this latest one he used cobalt and iron).

(I actually got a new one from him, and it is a' soakin'; Pag's need a lot of soak time to get the ash odor out, well at least my first one did, and well, this new one does).

I'll post some images over in 'Today's MatchaWan' when the soakin's done.



ps - here's an image of the new Pag from etsy:

http://ny-image3.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.149433903.jpg

I'm thinking of it as the Nebula chawan.

[Robert Fornell]

As I gazed at some of those gorgeous pieces, and after I sopped the drool from my chin, I found myself reminded sometimes of Robert Fornell's work, which I love (tho currently there's not much available on his etsy site). On the artists section here on TC he goes by 'ronin ceramurai'.

Hi Seeker,

Not many eyeballs it seems on etsy as compared to other sites therefore the somewhat limited postings which will most likely be phased out in the future. I'm always more than happy to send files/images to folks if they contact me as I literally have hundreds of chawan around.

For those in the SF Bay area, my NY gallery Cavin-Morris, will show my work there at the upcoming Asia Pacific Arts Expo which opens at the Fort Dent Center on 2/3 I believe. They are in booth C-4... The show moves to NY in May with some surprise pieces in the offing if I can get them finished! Please greet Randall and Mariko-san for me if you happen to stop by.

Another site which I feature work on is here http://s1202.photobucket.com/home/robfornellceramics

Thanks Seeker!

Best,
R

[Seeker]

Thanks Rob!
I've been pining for new creations from you and imagining you were busy off in Japan or something.
Woh! Some beautiful stuff!
NICE!

[Abracadaver!]

Thanks Rob!
I've been pining for new creations from you and imagining you were busy off in Japan or something.
Woh! Some beautiful stuff!
NICE!

+1 Glad to see this...some GREAT great stuff...

[Abracadaver!]

RE: Shoraku--

For what it's worth, I did a little research into his production practices a while back, and I found out the general break down with his work is that pretty much anything under about $250 or so is a kiln production piece by an assistant. The reproduction pieces (Koetsu, Chojiro, etc. usually $300-500) are generally by Shoraku himself, and any "original" works by him are significantly more expensive. I don't know how to differentiate beyond price or just asking the vendor directly, since it doesn't seem that he uses a different seal or anything to differentiate between production pieces and personal pieces.

...of course, take this with a grain of salt.

[JBaymore]

RE: Shoraku--

For what it's worth, I did a little research into his production practices a while back, and I found out the general break down with his work is that pretty much anything under about $250 or so is a kiln production piece by an assistant. The reproduction pieces (Koetsu, Chojiro, etc. usually $300-500) are generally by Shoraku himself, and any "original" works by him are significantly more expensive. I don't know how to differentiate beyond price or just asking the vendor directly, since it doesn't seem that he uses a different seal or anything to differentiate between production pieces and personal pieces.

...of course, take this with a grain of salt.

Good "cut to the chase" posting, Abracadaver.

Your general overview of this situation based upon "general pricing structure" pretty much fits the situation with an awful lot Japanese ceramists (meaning the "original" type chawan kind of start at about $500 US). When it comes to Chadogu in/from Japan, the "good stuff" is (unfortunately) not inexpensive.

Interestingly, according to my potter friends in Japan who have been mentoring me in my work, there is also a kind of "realtionship" between what I charge for my chawan and what I then charge for my guinomi. Apparently one does not want to have that differential "out of whack". It affects perceptions (and sales) of both objects. I have been chastised (oh so politely ) for my guinomi bering priced a bit too inexpensively.

The "workshop tradition", in which many pepole work together to produce the works of the "kamamoto" (head potter.... "kiln master" literally), is longstanding in Japan. In the larger pottery operations, this is very common. As is the tradition of "general kiln wares" and "the good stuff" and "exhibition pieces".

General kiln wares are the "workhorses" of the workshop. They are generally physically produced by shokunin (paid pottery workers) or the more senior deshi (apprentices). This means that the forming of the clay, the glazing, the stacking of the kilns, and the firing of the kilns, the unstacking, and the cleanup of work is pretty much all done by someone else other than the kamamoto. These wares "pay the bills". They are typically produced in large quantities. These pieces are considered the work of "the XXXXXXX kiln". They are relatively inexpensive. Hamada Tomoo-san has told me that this "general production work" amounts to the vast majority of the kiln's output/income.

The next level of work usually also involves shokunin and deshi but also has the hand of the master involved in quite a few steps in the production or in the more important steps in the production. The work is tightly reviewed and quality control is very high. Often the kamamoto gets involved in the finishing work before firing and in the glazing/decorating. These pieces are sold in regularly stocked good shops and galleries. They frequently (but not always) come with individualy signed boxes. "Mere mortals" can certainly afford these pieces, but they are not inexpensive.

The last category is the pieces produced for major exhibitions, like at department stores like Mitsukoshi. (In Japan, department store exhibitions are THE places to show.) Other than assistance with the firing when long firing wood kilns are involved, they are almost always made totally by the master potter. In some cases, often when the master is getting older and physical deterioration is a factor, a very experienced and trusted shokunin or a long term deshi might do something like the throwing of a very large form, that the master than finises or decorates. These pieces always have individually signed wooden boxes. These are the pieces that eventually show up in books, catalogs, museums, and so on. These are generally quite expensive, as they represent a very limited production and are the absolute "cream of the crop".

There is another tiny sub-category of work that exists too. "Sabisu" pieces. That is "service" pronounced in the Japanese way . These pieces are often given as a "little extra" in a bag when a good customer purchases a piece right at the potter's kiln/workshop. They ofter nare small yunomi or guinomi. These pieces are often work that is produced by a newer deshi that is considered not yet ready for full sale, but good enough that it is worth a little something. Sometimes these sabisu pieces are selected from the general kiln outpuut too. For a really good customer, sometimes these can be a "good" level small piece by the master too.... but this is far more rare.

best,

.......................john

[rdl]

thank you john,
you've written so well on the humble, artistic and business aspect of japanese pottery. what a great resource we here on TC are so lucky to have.
i would also really enjoy hearing, in your elegant words, about collecting tea ware.
i think we all do agree on the point that if someone buys a $3 or $3000 piece, that sincere appreciation of a piece is the other half, to the artist's creation.