Are Yixings Overrated?

[theredbaron]

Agreed. Now to find a teacher who isn't in the tea business!

Patience, grasshopper...

[bagua7]

As a pipe smoker

True, and the same is true for scotch. I guess Yixings give you a different flavor profile.

This must be a joke...tobacco, scotch...and you think I should believe someone with such unhealthy habits.

Quality Yixing pottery is an art and definitively not overrated, otherwise there wouldn't be some people spending millions on them.

[beecrofter]

After 25 or 30 years with your Yixing I think you might develop a knowledge of how it steeps and how it pours , before then it's probably over rated.

[jayinhk]

As a pipe smoker

True, and the same is true for scotch. I guess Yixings give you a different flavor profile.

This must be a joke...tobacco, scotch...and you think I should believe someone with such unhealthy habits.

Quality Yixing pottery is an art and definitively not overrated, otherwise there wouldn't be some people spending millions on them.

Completely illogical arguments and a seemingly poor attempt at being offensive.

Ironically, your attempts to discredit my opinion on Yixings (I don't even have one!) pretty much make you look stupid instead.

First of all, I haven't made a statement as to whether Yixings are overrated or not, so there's nothing to believe. Try reading through this thread again.

You don't know me or how much I smoke or drink. I haven't had any scotch in months (one beer this week) and I've had a single cheroot this week, not that it's any of your business. Nor do my tobacco, alcohol or Cantonese BBQ consumption have any bearing whatsoever on me wondering if Yixings are worth it, or on my thought processes or opinions in general. How old are you, 12?

Value is subjective--people spend millions on all kinds of things they deem worthy. That doesn't mean they are any good. Sure, Yixing pottery is an art form, but I was interested in opinions about whether Yixing pots do, in fact, brew better tea than porcelain, or if they are best at looking pretty. The more logical thinkers here realize I'd have to see for myself, which I agree with.

[Chip]

I believe Bagua was endeavoring to simply interject humor into the discussion ... or maybe I am wrong. Humor is often a part of forum discussion since we tend to be so ultra serious on these topics ... a joke is bound to happen. I am pretty sure it was not intended to be a personal jab at you. Unfortunately the written word is often a source of confusion.

Nothing personal, but since pipe smoking and whiskey have been used in this discussion already, their mention here is not such a far reach.

[jayinhk]

I don't know if he meant to be offensive, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt

I actually looked through the first few pages of his posts and he mentioned Yixings 'rounding' the taste of oolongs. I read about 'rounding' of flavors in relation to Yixing pots pretty often on here. It seems they provide a cleaner taste while removing certain elements of flavor. That is what I see as potentially undesirable: when spending good money on tea, wouldn't you want to taste it for what it is?

[debunix]

It depends on the tea. Some teas have elements that are harsh and interfere with the more desired flavors, and the pots can highlight those desired flavors by muting the harsh elements. I've taken a few of my Dan Congs back and forth between unglazed clay pot and porcelain gaiwan, and enjoyed infusions both ways for their differences.

[jayinhk]

Thanks Debunix, that's what I noticed from using a simple clay teapot last week: it 'cleaned up' the flavor somewhat. I'll be picking up a Yixing very soon!

[theredbaron]

That is what I see as potentially undesirable: when spending good money on tea, wouldn't you want to taste it for what it is?

Well, again, tasting tea for what it is means that you taste the product of many components: the leaves primarily, but also the water you use (different water brews a completely different tasting tea out of the same leaves), the kettle you brew the tea in (stainless, iron, ceramic, etc - all will give a slightly different taste), the heat source (electric, alcohol flame, coal all influence the taste), the skill of the person who brews the tea (a master's hand will brew a better tea than that of a student - Aaron Fischer wrote a good article on that subject), and of course the pot you use.
Over the years a tea drinker will try to optimize his skill and all the factors involved to improve and bring out the best of the teas he is drinking. But this does not only concern the mere taste of the tea, but also and especially the effects tea can have on one's mind as well. Many books have been written on tea philosophy, i don't want to bore you here with all that, other than saying that drinking Chinese, Japanese or Korean tea does also have some - i hate to say this much abused term here - certain spiritual aspects.

Sometimes it is quite difficult to define with words that can only be experienced by taste, or by the mind. In this sense "rounding the taste" could also be said as "adding to the taste", improving the taste, or whatever. Practically saying, for example - you will find that an excellent and well seasoned Yixing tea pot (paired with the best possible water, etc) will lead to a better taste experience, and also you will find that you can get more brews out of the tea as well.

This here is one of the reasons why i would suggest to find a teacher, or a round of experienced tea drinkers who you can drink tea with, as they can show you practically what can only be talked about here in this discussion. They can show you how different pots affect the same tea, and you can taste straight away what they tell you.

I am not a tea master, or even an expert, i have just been drinking Chinese tea for more than 20 years, but i am lucky that i have found a tea teacher almost 15 years ago, through whom i have been able to learn a lot. But there is much more for me to learn, and much i will most likely never learn. My teacher is a well recognized tea master, but also he is still constantly learning. Which is the joy of drinking tea - there is always something new to learn.

[edkrueger]

Jay, put a red ribbon around you pipe and I am sure that will make it healthy.

[jayinhk]

Jay, put a red ribbon around you pipe and I am sure that will make it healthy.

Done, although I have quite a few pipes, so I may need to put in a Taobao ribbon order

I may just take the locally offered tea appreciation course at the HK Museum of Tea: I'm sure they'll have some well-seasoned Yixings for me to try out!

[chrl42]

There are both sides, Xinjiang wild chrysanthemum tea has been popular these days, then Xinjiangers expanded the farms, trying their best in order to look like wild one. In the end, what we drink on the market as a wild chry. tea isn't wild but planted. But this is not how it got its fame from, then.

When fakes come out, there are 2 possibilities, the real one's quality fades away or vice versa. Latter is possible when the real one succeeds in protecting fakes as possible. The example is Dayi. In Yixing business, this example goes to Master Yixing market. To roughly 3 yrs go, this market's price went up by 3 times higher.

Funny thing is antique Yixing market wasn't moved, the main reason (I think) is it 'too difficult'. So its demand is limited to the selected ones. 90's collapse of Taiwan Yixing market belongs to former as well.

Back to topic, Yixing's over-rated or not, it's both. IMHO master Yixing market is overrated than it deserves, 'specially because many masters don't make themselves but use 'assistant' make theirs.

Antique Yixing is safer in this category,

Also what we shouldn't forget is, Yixing had many 'under-rated' periods before, from Sino-Japanese war to Mao-Zedong period. We shouldn't forget legends like Gu or Wang worked in factories next to students together, and the CR made Chinese abandoned old things and knew nothing about Yixing, Hong Kongers and Taiwanese took every antique Yixings in cheap money away to their home

[jayinhk]

chrl42: interesting post, thank you!

[jayinhk]

Just had some oolongs from VERY well-seasoned Yixings, and the tea was definitely packed with flavor. I noticed the water from the rinse of the pot was yellow like mild tea, so they definitely soak up something. I'm going to try one of the Yixing-brewed Tieguanyins I tried earlier in a gaiwan now to attempt compare the flavor, but the true test will come after I break in the new Yixing I picked up today. Yes, thanks to a recommendation from Marshal, I am now a Yixing owner. I also got some tips on Yixing use and got to see two well-used pots in action (and also got to drink from them)!

EDIT: There may be something to this Yixing thing. I used the same ratio of TGY to water the dealer used in a similarly-shaped porcelain pot, and I'm getting lighter colored and slightly less flavorful brew. Still very enjoyable, however. The dealer used all kinds of oolong in the same pots. When I asked them if they used different pots for different roast levels and different oolongs, they chuckled.

EDIT 2: Boiled my new Yixing after giving it a good rinse, then boiled it in prewashed shu pu erh. Washed it again, preheated it, and made my first pot of Yixing-brewed tea. It does dribble a little.

Clay does seem to trap heat quite well, and the pot was absolutely steaming when I lifted the lid after the brew. A lot of heat does radiate through the pot, however, although this may be less of an issue as the pot builds up a protective layer of tea residue. Now to try the tea!

It absolutely tastes better. Please close this thread Chip!

In all seriousness, this pu, which I've been drinking daily for weeks, really does taste much cleaner and more flavorful from my new Yixing. I'm not sure if it's the heat, minerals from the clay, both, or something else. Further testing is in order!

[wyardley]

I don't think Yixing pots are overrated, but I do have to say that, while it may be true that pots pick up flavor with frequent use, I've never noticed it. It's possible that my palate is just not refined enough, but even with daily use over a period of years, I've never noticed a strong tea aroma or flavor in the pot if I just put hot water in it.

That's not to say some might not build up over a very long time, but I don't think it will happen within months or even a couple of years.

Anyway, I'm not saying these stories are all complete BS, and I do tend to devote each pot to one general type of tea, but I don't think one has to be incredibly specific about it, or get worried if one brews the "wrong" type of tea in a pot once or twice.

Also, tea tasting better out of a Yixing pot could be due to many factors, not just to flavors that have built up in the pot. For example, I think it's fairly well accepted that stoneware / earthenware does have some benefits to water taste (i.e., can improve the taste of water), and the clay may retain heat better than other types of tea brewing vessels.