Clay pot for dancong - topic expanded to types of mud clays

[chrl42]

Similar, but not the same, yixing clay is supposed to be hard to work with poor plasticity. If you're mixing imitation yixing probably most people make a mix that's a bit more plastic, can be fired at lower temp ect...to make it easier to use. But then this clay is scientifically different from the traditional yixing clay Probably if you have a sample of high quality natural yixing clay and have the tools to analyse it in detail you could make an imitation mix that is very accurate...but why go through all that trouble to get clay that cracks on the wheel and needs to be carefully hand shaped from slabs when yixing collectors won't spend big money on it if they know what you did?

Though also interesting question...since you can put cheap wine in a nice bottle and talk it up and most people will think it is really an expensive wine when they taste it....so are the expensive things really different, or we just think they are because we're told so?

I think I discussed with bears*3 years ago. But that is not what Yixing potters see it.

Not able to be worked on the wheels is where Yixing potters and collectors give it a prop. Because it leads potters enable to work on the pots more detailed, give it an artistic value.

It takes a day to weeks to hand-make a Yixing teapot. And over 10 when mould-used, over 100 if wheel-thrown. So it looks like the Chinese sometimes know how to care more than just quantity.

Will wheel-thrown be able to make pots like below..?

[entropyembrace]

Zhuni is low-firing is due to its mud-like texture. While normal Yixing clay is basically ore, stone..Zhuni clay is somewhat like mud..high in clay content. (as opposed to sand content). There is a data that old Zhuni contains more alumina content, that data was talking about higher the alumina higher temp the firing. Modern Zhuni like Xiaomeiyao cannot be fired over 1100c, due to too much shrinkage. That data explained less alumina led to higher shrinkage.

Oxide powder-duped clays' easily breakage in the kilns might be due to its mixture composition or others. It's normally iron-rich clays are more resistant to heat (like Jian wares or Bizen).

You can find clay with mud like texture that fires at high temperature, you can also find clay with rock like texture that fires at low temperature. Sometimes the same clay can be mud like one week, and rock like the next depending on when it rained last.

But then you said what the real difference is, yixing clays which can be fired at higher temperature have more alumina which reduces shrinkage in the kiln.

Also the yixing clays which can be fired at the highest temperatures, approaching hard-paste porcelain, like Duan Ni are also the yixing clays with lowest iron oxide content.

As for beware because it's not yixing? Because it's not super high fire? Because maybe it's mixed by the potter?

uhh...so what? unless you mean beware of spending too much money?

Potters all over the world commonly mix clays from component minerals, or modify clays they mined by adding prepared minerals that they buy in bags. Or even more common they buy blocks of clay which was mixed in a large factory from component minerals.

There is the idea that unglazed low-fired wares are not food safe because they don't form a waterproof surface, which could be a place where bacteria could grow, but people here routinely use hagi-yaki which easily soaks up water without ill effects. What other concern is there? Issues with toxic metals are in glazes, this isn't glazed?

[entropyembrace]

Not able to be worked on the wheels is where Yixing potters and collectors give it a prop. Because it leads potters enable to work on the pots more detailed, give it an artistic value.

It takes a day to weeks to hand-make a Yixing teapot. And over 10 when mould-used, over 100 if wheel-thrown. So it looks like the Chinese sometimes know how to care more than just quantity.

Will wheel-thrown be able to make pots like below..?

I love hand building btw and those pots are very beautiful. Though hand building is easier with more plastic clay too

[chrl42]

Zhuni is low-firing is due to its mud-like texture. While normal Yixing clay is basically ore, stone..Zhuni clay is somewhat like mud..high in clay content. (as opposed to sand content). There is a data that old Zhuni contains more alumina content, that data was talking about higher the alumina higher temp the firing. Modern Zhuni like Xiaomeiyao cannot be fired over 1100c, due to too much shrinkage. That data explained less alumina led to higher shrinkage.

Oxide powder-duped clays' easily breakage in the kilns might be due to its mixture composition or others. It's normally iron-rich clays are more resistant to heat (like Jian wares or Bizen).

You can find clay with mud like texture that fires at high temperature, you can also find clay with rock like texture that fires at low temperature. Sometimes the same clay can be mud like one week, and rock like the next depending on when it rained last.

But then you said what the real difference is, yixing clays which can be fired at higher temperature have more alumina which reduces shrinkage in the kiln.

Also the yixing clays which can be fired at the highest temperatures, approaching hard-paste porcelain, like Duan Ni are also the yixing clays with lowest iron oxide content.

As for beware because it's not yixing? Because it's not super high fire? Because maybe it's mixed by the potter?

uhh...so what? unless you mean beware of spending too much money?

Potters all over the world commonly mix clays from component minerals, or modify clays they mined by adding prepared minerals that they buy in bags. Or even more common they buy blocks of clay which was mixed in a large factory from component minerals.

There is the idea that unglazed low-fired wares are not food safe because they don't form a waterproof surface, which could be a place where bacteria could grow, but people here routinely use hagi-yaki which easily soaks up water without ill effects. What other concern is there? Issues with toxic metals are in glazes, this isn't glazed?

No problem. You are fully entitled to your opinions. I just tell what I know, too.

Peace.

[kyarazen]

anyone remembers when did pin-zi first came out in factory 1?

and what went into pin-zi... resulting in certain benefits?

[entropyembrace]

No problem. You are fully entitled to your opinions. I just tell what I know, too.

Peace.

And thank you for that

I just wonder why just because it's not yixing it's potentially dangerous? mganz says he didn't spend lots of money and knew it wasn't really yixing from the beginning So I tried to explain how mixing clays is a common practice, and not something to be scared of, that's all.

obviously it doesn't have the same collectors value as a hand made pot from rare yixing clay.

[Tead Off]

No problem. You are fully entitled to your opinions. I just tell what I know, too.

Peace.

And thank you for that

I just wonder why just because it's not yixing it's potentially dangerous? mganz says he didn't spend lots of money and knew it wasn't really yixing from the beginning So I tried to explain how mixing clays is a common practice, and not something to be scared of, that's all.

obviously it doesn't have the same collectors value as a hand made pot from rare yixing clay.

There seems to be two different points in the discussion that is confusing. The idea that the poster's teapot is NOT Yixing clay doesn't mean it is dangerous. Mixing clay is fine. Even Yixing clays are mixed.

Then there is the difference between mud and rock. They are not the same and Yixing people can differentiate, preferring rock. This also does not mean that mud will not make good tea. It's much more complex than that.

[kyarazen]

haha some of these yixing posts are hilarious to me, yixing people sometimes have the strangest idea of what "clay" is. a basic organic chemistry class and an earth science class could go a loooong way for most of them.

To be fair I think a lot of the yixing terminology is very confusing, and is maybe suffering from translation problems. It's easy to see how people get the wrong idea about where clay comes from and how it's processed to be usable, especially if they haven't had the chance to see potters mixing and preparing clay before.

yup. the biggest problem with terminologies is with the translation.. if everyone spoke chinese, read chinese texts, it would be very much less confusing than trying to "englishfy" terms.

泥，砂，土，石，矿，岩
紫，青，红，朱，绿

recently i was obsessing with japanese satetsu stuffs, studying the compositions.. 砂铁，黑铁砂.. one of my colleagues was like...wow what are you doing with sand?! .. thats because in direct translation.. iron sand.. black iron sand.. but it is nothing to do with sand (sillica sand that is on the beaches)..

[chrl42]

anyone remembers when did pin-zi first came out in factory 1?

and what went into pin-zi... resulting in certain benefits?

Normally they perceive it as early as late-70s.

There is a famous article written by the higher-leveled Pan Zhi-ping (Gu Jing-zhou's student), called 石黄泥，天青泥...he wrote the first mixing during the Factory-1 existed during that time.

During that time, most of Zini were light brown-red Qing Shui Ni, in order to imitate mid-Qing's darker tone (深紫泥), they decided to mix in manganese oxide. That is to appeal to HK/Taiwan market maybe.

Mixing clay itself can enhance the plasticity I heard.

[mganz42]

I frequently see people talking about whether a pot is "safe" to use. What are people talking about when they question the safety of a pot? What are the potential dangers of a fake yixing pot anyway? Just in general

[bonescwa]

I frequently see people talking about whether a pot is "safe" to use. What are people talking about when they question the safety of a pot? What are the potential dangers of a fake yixing pot anyway? Just in general

Hypochondria
Maybe lead... cadmium... In a far lower amount than can be clinically significant if you're over 14 years old

[the_economist]

Nobody really knows the dangers of a fake yixing pot because fake pots can come from anything.

I think it's fine to use Yixing pots that have been coloured by mixing in oxides the way the factories did in the past. Most of them are fired well and how they made them is known.

Besides, I doubt it will be good for the tea. Why not just use porcelain.

[puyuan]

Nobody really knows the dangers of a fake yixing pot because fake pots can come from anything.

I think it's fine to use Yixing pots that have been coloured by mixing in oxides the way the factories did in the past. Most of them are fired well and how they made them is known.

Besides, I doubt it will be good for the tea. Why not just use porcelain.

This. That CCTV report mentioned potential hazards, but how many people are faking these things, and in how many different ways? Fakers are legion.