I still use a water cooler, because I leave it set most days to 208. But I know exactly what Space is saying, there's something very organic about using a steel kettle and waiting for the water to boil.
Ideally, I would use the zoji for most things, and a tableside electric kettle for a long session or with guests.
haha, undoubtedly true. i only reserve those beautiful tea moments for myself in the evening when i'm alone. a bit selfish, but hey, if im going through all that traditional work, im not just going to give that tasty tea away!But if all you want is tea NOW, it's really hard to beat a Zoji or a good electric kettle. Smile
Aug 9th, '08, 13:06
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If you want a readily available supply of hot water, the Zojirushi are excellent.
For a really precise serving of tea, though, I'd recommend the old-fashioned kettle. You have more control over the temperature of the water. The atmosphere of a proper tea party/ceremony loses something when you push a button for water instead of pouring.
Re-boiling reduces the amount of oxygen in the water, making for a lesser quality brew--I don't have proof, but I imagine that the same would happen if you hold water at a hot temperature for hours via a Zojirushi-like device.
For a really precise serving of tea, though, I'd recommend the old-fashioned kettle. You have more control over the temperature of the water. The atmosphere of a proper tea party/ceremony loses something when you push a button for water instead of pouring.
Re-boiling reduces the amount of oxygen in the water, making for a lesser quality brew--I don't have proof, but I imagine that the same would happen if you hold water at a hot temperature for hours via a Zojirushi-like device.
Aug 9th, '08, 16:09
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I second everything Sal has said, and I wouldn't give up the Zoji for anything 
I also end up using it for things like oatmeal, noodles, hot chocolate, and just about anything that I need boiling water for. I just have the most basic 3L model with a 7 hr timer. The guy at Serenity Art (local store) gave me the "obsessive freak" discount, bringing it down to $100. I also keep mine at 208 almost all the time. If I need cooler water for greens then I'll pour some cold water on the leaf and dispense from the Zoji on the side of the brewing vessel (which is usually best anyway).
Re-boiling isn't as much of a problem as long as you add fresh water before doing so. If you just reboil the same water then it can make a (negative) difference.
The slow boil also dechlorinates the water further (Brita and the like don't fully dechlorinate), so I actually noticed an improvement in the taste of the water when I started using the Zoji (I was on a quest for the perfect water at the time). For the record I have serious doubts about the truth of the oxygen idea. Boiling does other things that would have a much more readily apparent effect on the tea (see Andy's blog post on water), and many with lots of experience will talk about boiling and letting it cool for x minutes. I suspect that what's best for any individual will depend, in great part, on the particular qualities of the water being used.
I actually don't dump the water very often. I keep mine full as much as I can (I like to keep it from going below what I can refill with the Brita), and just clean out any buildup when it starts to become visible. This has the benefit of having the water boiled and cooled by the time I'm ready for my next cup. I also fill it with only Brita water, though, which keeps non-scale residue to a bare minimum.
I love the Zoji, even for gongfu (though normally more informal gongfu). I got a small bamboo tray to keep under it for catching my spills and drips (mine and the teapots, not the Zoji), and that had the added benefit of making informal gongfu very quick and easy (and what actually got me into gongfu seriously).
I will probably get one of the Chinese style kettles with the long narrow spout for more formal sessions, however, and so I can learn more about how pouring factors into the brew. I've done that a bit with the Zoji and have noticed a difference, but being able to sit down to a table with my rather large tray would have it's advantages (my Zoji is on the kitchen counter as well). My far more expensive teas would also likely benefit from this extra attention to detail.
And yes, they're quite energy efficient. Zoji claims that it uses a combined total of something like 500 watts per day, where regular kettles tend to use 1000-1500 watts at a time (check the label, they usually give the wattage). It takes a lot less power to keep water warm than to boil it from cold. This could also be another reason to keep it relatively full.
I also end up using it for things like oatmeal, noodles, hot chocolate, and just about anything that I need boiling water for. I just have the most basic 3L model with a 7 hr timer. The guy at Serenity Art (local store) gave me the "obsessive freak" discount, bringing it down to $100. I also keep mine at 208 almost all the time. If I need cooler water for greens then I'll pour some cold water on the leaf and dispense from the Zoji on the side of the brewing vessel (which is usually best anyway).Re-boiling isn't as much of a problem as long as you add fresh water before doing so. If you just reboil the same water then it can make a (negative) difference.
The slow boil also dechlorinates the water further (Brita and the like don't fully dechlorinate), so I actually noticed an improvement in the taste of the water when I started using the Zoji (I was on a quest for the perfect water at the time). For the record I have serious doubts about the truth of the oxygen idea. Boiling does other things that would have a much more readily apparent effect on the tea (see Andy's blog post on water), and many with lots of experience will talk about boiling and letting it cool for x minutes. I suspect that what's best for any individual will depend, in great part, on the particular qualities of the water being used.
I actually don't dump the water very often. I keep mine full as much as I can (I like to keep it from going below what I can refill with the Brita), and just clean out any buildup when it starts to become visible. This has the benefit of having the water boiled and cooled by the time I'm ready for my next cup. I also fill it with only Brita water, though, which keeps non-scale residue to a bare minimum.
I love the Zoji, even for gongfu (though normally more informal gongfu). I got a small bamboo tray to keep under it for catching my spills and drips (mine and the teapots, not the Zoji), and that had the added benefit of making informal gongfu very quick and easy (and what actually got me into gongfu seriously).
I will probably get one of the Chinese style kettles with the long narrow spout for more formal sessions, however, and so I can learn more about how pouring factors into the brew. I've done that a bit with the Zoji and have noticed a difference, but being able to sit down to a table with my rather large tray would have it's advantages (my Zoji is on the kitchen counter as well). My far more expensive teas would also likely benefit from this extra attention to detail.
And yes, they're quite energy efficient. Zoji claims that it uses a combined total of something like 500 watts per day, where regular kettles tend to use 1000-1500 watts at a time (check the label, they usually give the wattage). It takes a lot less power to keep water warm than to boil it from cold. This could also be another reason to keep it relatively full.
ABx wrote:
And yes, they're quite energy efficient. Zoji claims that it uses a combined total of something like 500 watts per day, where regular kettles tend to use 1000-1500 watts at a time (check the label, they usually give the wattage). It takes a lot less power to keep water warm than to boil it from cold. This could also be another reason to keep it relatively full.
I think zojirushi consumes more power than regular kettle.
For LCC30 they give for 32W to 47W per hour for Keep warm mode, that is 700 to 1100 W a day, just for keeping the water warm, so not counting the power needed to actually warm the water.
I'm actually not sure there. Apparently an electric kettle can use roughly 2250W per hour. Now of course it's only on for a few minutes rather than an hour, but you're still looking at nearly 200W every time you use it. If you're getting hot water from it on a regular basis you're really gonna rack that up. Combine that with the Zoji's sleep function when you're not going to be using them.. certainly seems to balance out at least.olivierco wrote:I think zojirushi consumes more power than regular kettle.
For LCC30 they give for 32W to 47W per hour for Keep warm mode, that is 700 to 1100 W a day, just for keeping the water warm, so not counting the power needed to actually warm the water.
I timed it this morning: less than 3 min for 3 steeps of boiling water so roughly 100W per session. Even at 6 sessions a day less energy with a kettle.neowolf wrote:
I'm actually not sure there. Apparently an electric kettle can use roughly 2250W per hour. Now of course it's only on for a few minutes rather than an hour, but you're still looking at nearly 200W every time you use it. If you're getting hot water from it on a regular basis you're really gonna rack that up. Combine that with the Zoji's sleep function when you're not going to be using them.. certainly seems to balance out at least.
You still have to add the energy for warming the water in the zojirushi. They don't give the actual figures in the manual but as the nominal power is 800W and a 30 min time is required to obtain the boil, I guess that is 400W more.
Although it is more energy consuming, I might anyway consider buying a zojirushi, the day they will decide to sell it in Europe.
Aug 10th, '08, 16:48
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Minus 7 hours for me (the timer is 7 hours, and I work at home so it stays on 17 hours) is 544w to 799w. I keep it relatively full and refill with room temp water so that the boil doesn't take more than about 5-10 minutes. Since I would use a kettle upwards of 10 times per day, that still approximately balances out if not giving me an actual savings (depending on the kettle).olivierco wrote:I think zojirushi consumes more power than regular kettle.
For LCC30 they give for 32W to 47W per hour for Keep warm mode, that is 700 to 1100 W a day, just for keeping the water warm, so not counting the power needed to actually warm the water.
Of course if you opt for the vacuum model then you're only looking at 20w/hr max to keep warm.
Aug 10th, '08, 18:22
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with a hot water dispenser ala Zoji, or my Tiger
900W x1 x0.25h = 225W (lets say x1 supposing it boils the water 1 a day)
+
31W x23.75h = 736.25W (23.75h= 24h - time it spent boiling at full power)
--> total W constantly on = 961.25 W/d
The one time boiler pots:
(afaik 1500W is max W for a regular wall socket(USA))
(not sure how long it takes to boil the water, i estimated 10 minutes)
1200W x3 x0.1666h = 600 W/d (plugged it in 3 times for 10min each)
...i think
900W x1 x0.25h = 225W (lets say x1 supposing it boils the water 1 a day)
+
31W x23.75h = 736.25W (23.75h= 24h - time it spent boiling at full power)
--> total W constantly on = 961.25 W/d
The one time boiler pots:
(afaik 1500W is max W for a regular wall socket(USA))
(not sure how long it takes to boil the water, i estimated 10 minutes)
1200W x3 x0.1666h = 600 W/d (plugged it in 3 times for 10min each)
...i think
Aug 11th, '08, 02:32
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Well I am nerdy enough.GeekgirlUnveiled wrote:We need an aquarium nerd to plug a zoji and a regular boiler into a wattage meter for 24 hours. That would settle the debate.
Oh WAIT! I'M an aquarium nerd. But I'm not quite nerdy enough to have a wattage meter. Oh how I want one.
108W +-4W for my morning tea: three 150ml steeps boiling water in a saucepan with lid on an induction plate. One full boil (130s) and two reboils (15s and 10s).
Alas no zojirushi is available in France to compare.
Aug 11th, '08, 13:34
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Very very rarely will heating something and maintaining the heat level that is significantly higher than room temperature use less energy than starting from scratch and using all the water. Assuming both units are efficient.
I heat once, use all the water for several steeps w/o the need to reheat.
The kettle wins the energy war I am certain.
I would likely like the convenience of the Zoji, but I also like the process or heating the water to a boil, the sound feeds the senses.
I heat once, use all the water for several steeps w/o the need to reheat.
The kettle wins the energy war I am certain.
I would likely like the convenience of the Zoji, but I also like the process or heating the water to a boil, the sound feeds the senses.