cast iron vs stainless steel

[chamekke]

My reasoning was that if the Japanese have used them since the 600's and their metallurgist had the early knowledge of stainless steel production, why did they continue cast iron tetsubin usage? It must be for a valid reason; enhancing tea.

I think you're right - since my experience, too, is that tea made in cast iron vessels tastes really great! However, my guess (and that's all it is) is that heat retention also plays a big part.

Tell you what - I'll ask my tea sensei if she can tell me why cast iron is preferred for okama and tetsubin, and will pass along her reply.

[orguz]

Tell you what - I'll ask my tea sensei if she can tell me why cast iron is preferred for okama and tetsubin, and will pass along her reply.

Please do, It'll be interesting to hear.

[orguz]

The initial attraction

Would it work to put a hunk of iron in the stainless kettle?

I will go to the rail tracks tonight in my ninja costume and remove a few rusty nails from the tracks

[cheaton]

I'm a lover of cast iron cookware. I don't cook in anything else. That being said, I'm not a purist. I wash my cast iron. I don't want what I cooked before to taint the flavor of what I'm cooking now. Regardless, nothing tastes as good as when it's cooked on a cast iron skillet. And properly maintained it's naturally non-stick. All of this aside...i don't know how much more I want outside influences tainting the flavor of my tea (apart from my Yixing). How much flavor are you covering up by introducing the flavor from the iron? I consider stainless steel to be a "clean" medium which doesn't impart much of any flavor into what is cooked in or on it.

Perhaps if it is traditional flavors you're looking for, in other words, you want to taste what people were tasting when they were first drinking tea, then CI is probably the way to go. But, if you want to taste the true flavor of your tea (and possibly the coloring from your Yixing) then in my opinion CI would hinder that experience.

While on this subject, what about bronze or copper kettles? I'm sure these materials are traditional as well...

[MarshalN]

I think the idea that you're drinking the "true" flavour of your tea is a flawed one, mostly because no matter what water you use, it's going to change your tea. You can use any kind of water and they will ALL taste different. It doesn't matter if it's distilled water, spring water, well water...

And ditto preparation -- whether you use iron, steel, plastic, silver etc... they will all change the flavour of your water, and thus your tea. You can nuke the water and that will probably still be different from boiling it on the stove.

So.... I'd say go with what makes the tea taste better.

[cheaton]

I think the idea that you're drinking the "true" flavour of your tea is a flawed one, mostly because no matter what water you use, it's going to change your tea. You can use any kind of water and they will ALL taste different. It doesn't matter if it's distilled water, spring water, well water...

And ditto preparation -- whether you use iron, steel, plastic, silver etc... they will all change the flavour of your water, and thus your tea. You can nuke the water and that will probably still be different from boiling it on the stove.

So.... I'd say go with what makes the tea taste better.

You make a good point. I guess in my mind (and it's probably completely psycological) I feel stainless gives me more of direct water to tea flavor with imparting any other flavors into the water. I've used stainless for so long I think my brain can probably filter out the tastes that come from its use. So yes, I agree, what tastes best to you is probably what you should use. And experimenting never hurts. However, I just bought a nice new stainless electric kettle so there is no tetsubin purchase in the near future for me.

[Salsero]

OK, if I were crazy enough to want to try using cast iron, I still don't think I would be crazy enough to pay $55 + $24 to but Artistic Nippon's cheapest tetsubin.

Do either of the following inexpensive kettles look like reasonable choices?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WDWQAM?smi ... nkCode=asn

http://www.shopperschoice.com/item_name ... ce=froogle

[cheaton]

I can't see anything wrong with either of them. However, when cast iron is black like that it's typically "pre-seasoned". This is an explanation of how Lodge brand cast iron cookware is seasoned. (this is the only cast iron pots and pans I will buy, btw)

What type oil is used to season Lodge Seasoned Cast Iron?
We use a proprietary soy-based vegetable oil to season our cookware. This oil has been Orthodox Union Kosher certified. The oil contains no animal fat or peanut oil. The seasoning is functional application and slight inconsistencies may appear in the seasoning finish. The inconsistencies will not affect cooking performance.

I would say for this application you'd probably want unseasoned cast iron. And in the case of these pots, it's hard to say what they're seasoned or coated with. Either way, if it's not a silvery color then it's been treated or seasoned in some way. It looks as though tetsubins are baked but probably without the presence of oil.

[cheaton]

http://www.holymtn.com/teapots/IwachuTetsubin.htm

Notice the color of the iron before the outsidei s painted. These are of course enamel coated tetsubin "teapots" but you get the picture. No "seasoning" here.

[battra]

I did make some experiments over the past week, drinking tea made with water heated in tetsubin, electric kettle and saucepan, and I found that the tea made from tetsubin water does indeed taste better. I didn't have any problem with my electric kettle before, and it doesn't make bad tea, but I think the water from the tetsubin makes a tea that tastes a little more "soft" and fresh.

Experiment 1: Blind test with oolong tea brewed at the same time in two gaiwan, identical cups, water from electric kettle and tetsubin. The tetsubin tea was fairly easy to identify, being more "soft" and being without a slight aftertaste that I guess came from the plastic in the electric kettle.

Experiment 2: Blind test with hot water from tetsubin, electric kettle and saucepan in identical cups. It was very easy to identify which was which, with just single sip of water. The water from the electric kettle almost tasted a bit stale. The water from the tetsubin had a rather soft taste, compared to the saucepan water, which had a more sharp metallic taste, which I guess is the taste of chromium and/or nickel.
I thought that stainless steel would give a more pure taste, but I actually had this metallic taste both with a rather new saucepan, made in China, and a ten year old saucepan made in France.
I actually did get a new tetsubin too. The water from the old and rather rusty tetsubin tasted quite a lot of iron, while the new one has very little of metallic taste, less than the saucepans. Maybe it will get more iron taste with time.

Experiment 3: Blind test with cold water from tetsubin, electric kettle, saucepan and directly from the tap. They all tasted the same! I guess because the difference in taste is very small and the taste buds probably get a bit numbed by the cold water.

I can not say why the tea made from tetsubin water taste better for me, it could still be a psychological effect - i.e. I think the tetsubin is nice, and iron feels more "natural", it can be the nice taste of iron or the absence of the bad taste of plastic, or maybe the rough surface of the tetsubin results in more oxygen in the boiled water?

[olivierco]

Thanks for the interesting results.

I use a saucepan and you can effectively get a "sharp metallic taste", especially if you cleaned it with the abrasive side of a sponge. But when you only use it for heating water and dry it with a soft cloth, there isn't any metallic taste anymore.

[Salsero]

I'm looking at a large, inexpensive tetsubin on ebay but it is pretty rusty. Unfortunately there isn't a really good photo of the inside, but the underside of the lid shows rust spots. Does anyone know if it could be turned into a useful kettle despite the rust ... or if the rust even matters?

I reviewed the nice May posting of MarshalN's on his tetsubins and the follow-up comments on maintenance. It sounds like MarshalN and others don't worry about some level of rust inside the kettle, in fact take it to be normal.

[nada]

it doesn't look too rusty, I've seen much worse! (even MarshalN's ones on his blog seem to have much more rust - if the spouts are a good indication of what's inside)

If the rust is a problem i think soaking it for a few hours or overnight in distilled vinegar will take most of the rust off.

just make sure to boil boil and boil again water in it before brewing tea afterwards to get rid of vinegar taste, but with vinegar at least you can be sure it's not toxic

[chamekke]

I'm looking at a large, inexpensive tetsubin on ebay but it is pretty rusty. Unfortunately there isn't a really good photo of the inside, but the underside of the lid shows rust spots. Does anyone know if it could be turned into a useful kettle despite the rust ... or if the rust even matters?

A good scrubbing should get rid of most of the rust, which is usually found in vintage tetsubin. And a little residual surface rust isn't really a problem. The main question (to my mind anyway) is whether the rusting is so bad that it damages the integrity of the vessel. If the rusting is on the surface, rather than causing the iron to come away in huge flakes, I think you're OK.

It's hard to tell from the photo of the interior, but I think the one on eBay doesn't look too bad.

[Salsero]

If the rusting is on the surface, rather than causing the iron to come away in huge flakes, I think you're OK.

I will ask the seller. I already asked if she had tested it for leaks, but it never occurred to her to fill it with water to try ... she assumed it doesn't leak because it is cast iron, and she will not be home again until after the auction closes. I guess I will ask her about rust coming away in huge flakes.