Yixing Pot as a Kettle?

[Tead Off]

Good question.

Yellow clay will still have an absorbant surface capable of binding excess minerals.

I do know the minimum iron content in any given clay necessary for catalytic treatment of organics and heavy metals. The iron must also be produced in the reduced state.

Lins kettles do not look to be red zisha clay (especially since this specialty ceramics firm is located in Taiwan).

Water quality in much of Eastern China may be characterized as soft river water with contaminants characterized as organic (industrial waste, natural organic acids produced from biodegradation of wastewater (BOD) somewhat oxygen limited conditions, nutrient (phosphate, nitrate) and pesticides).

Zisha clay may well been or is a good match for this water type.

Customer service at luhyutea.com sent an additional email today. They will reduce the price of their unglazed clay kettle by $5, is we can get 10 members to purchase a kettle each. The shipping is *very* reasonable.

Since I am primarily an Oolong tea drinker, red clay is important for me since it is this color that seems to have the best effect on this type of tea. Since tetsubin are iron vessels that have been subjected to reduction process, they are said to be NOT compatible with Oolong tea brewing. So, there must be something in the clay other than reduced iron that gives the desired effect with Oolong. And, since red clay is no longer produced in yixing (natural red clay) at affordable prices, I am looking at other sources like Purion. While Purion is not red clay, I know knowledgeable Oolong drinkers who swear by it. Maybe the mineral ore that is mixed with the clay contains the element that transforms the water. This is where my understanding stops.

Hojo adamantly states that his Sado red clay pots are 2nd to real Zhu Ni, but, I don't think they make kettles and they would quite expensive as the small pots he sells are mostly over $300 each.

I'd love to know of other sources of clay teapots that have a positive effect on tea. Please pass on any info you hear about.

[bi lew chun]

Hojo adamantly states that his Sado red clay pots are 2nd to real Zhu Ni, but, I don't think they make kettles and they would quite expensive as the small pots he sells are mostly over $300 each.

Those pots are pretty interesting. It makes sense to turn to alternate sources for good red clay if genuine Yixing zhuni has been depleted. I'd love to try one out, but $300 is a bit much to pay without reasonable assurances that it would actually have the same type of effect on tea as zhuni.

[wyardley]

Since I am primarily an Oolong tea drinker, red clay is important for me since it is this color that seems to have the best effect on this type of tea. Since tetsubin are iron vessels that have been subjected to reduction process, they are said to be NOT compatible with Oolong tea brewing. So, there must be something in the clay other than reduced iron that gives the desired effect with Oolong.

I don't think we were talking about brewing oolong tea in the kettle, were we? I think you are talking about two different things here as if they're the same thing.

[Tead Off]

Since I am primarily an Oolong tea drinker, red clay is important for me since it is this color that seems to have the best effect on this type of tea. Since tetsubin are iron vessels that have been subjected to reduction process, they are said to be NOT compatible with Oolong tea brewing. So, there must be something in the clay other than reduced iron that gives the desired effect with Oolong.

I don't think we were talking about brewing oolong tea in the kettle, were we? I think you are talking about two different things here as if they're the same thing.

Sorry to mislead. I was talking about just using the water from a kettle to pour into a teapot with tea in it. But, since the tea kettle Intuit is talking about is not red clay, I am questioning its effect on the water that will be used to brew oolong tea.

[wyardley]

Sorry to mislead. I was talking about just using the water from a kettle to pour into a teapot with tea in it. But, since the tea kettle Intuit is talking about is not red clay, I am questioning its effect on the water that will be used to brew oolong tea.

So you think you could tell the difference in a blind tasting between oolong tea made with water boiled in a red clay kettle and tea made with water boiled in a kettle made of some other kind of earthenware? I would love to try that as an experiment, because if you can, you have an amazing palate.

[Intuit]

Back to square one. Red clay is said to improve the flavor of oolong tea and zisha (purple) clay performs even better.

The state of iron reduction seems to play a role in conditioning kettle water.

http://hojotea.com/item_e/mumyoi.htm

"The difference between purple clay teapot and natural red clay teapot is that purple clay obviously reduces aroma, yet drastically increases flavor. As for Sado red clay teapot, it increases flavor while it maintains the aroma."

Seems as though the chemistry difference is affecting volatiles versus semi- or not-volatile oil components. Could be a physical process of absorption into pores, with a difference in void diameter (relative porosity).

From what I have read of the origin of these clays, types of organics and their concentration in these clays also plays a role in the physics and chemistry of the finished product. Have no idea how working the clay and firing temp affects the organic fraction, but it would play a factor in the sand fraction behavior after processing.

Many variables, not enough published lit to make definitive conclusions, other than exchange and absorption of minerals and absorption/*possible catalysis* of bound organic contaminants in kettle water.

[wyardley]

Back to square one. Red clay is said to improve the flavor of oolong tea and zisha (purple) clay performs even better.

The state of iron reduction seems to play a role in conditioning kettle water.

http://hojotea.com/item_e/mumyoi.htm

"The difference between purple clay teapot and natural red clay teapot is that purple clay obviously reduces aroma, yet drastically increases flavor. As for Sado red clay teapot, it increases flavor while it maintains the aroma."

But the text you're quoting is talking about pots for brewing tea, not pots for boiling water for tea! I don't dispute that certain clay types may be better or worse for brewing certain types of tea, due to their different degrees of porousness, heat retention characteristics, etc. However, I'm not sure these same concepts can be applied at the same level to vessels used for boiling water for tea. Further, different types of red earthenware clay from different areas have very different properties.

While "Zisha" (紫砂） literally means something like "purple sand", Zisha is a general category that includes types of clay of various colors, including several different types of clay that appear red after firing.

Lastly, it seems as if you're taking one person's word as gospel (one person who has an interest in convincing people that what he's selling is better than what the other guy is selling at that). There is no single authority who has all the answers, and, like pretty much everything in tea, this is an area where there's a lot of debate.

[Intuit]

Well, no, I am not taking his word that red clay improves the taste of tea. Hundreds of thousands of Brits know that their red clay pots brew a superior tea.

In fact, my eyebrows raised up a bit at the mention of the gold mines, as the clay deposits very well could carry lead, uranium and arsenic metal contaminants.

Red clays are rather common, and of course their geochemistry varies with location, originating strata, erosion/depositional processes and co-deposited fractions, sand and organics.

And then the clay iteself is subject to additives and probably mixing with other clays for color and textural effects.

Yes, this thread is about conditioning water for brewing. I simply quoted the source of the thread opener, showing that red clays are used with oolongs.

[MarshalN]

I think a look around the internet or any Asian teashop anywhere can tell you that red clay is used with oolongs - no need to quote anybody for that info. It doesn't prove anything. There are plenty of people using 64oz sized tetsubin to brew green tea out there. It doesn't mean it's good practice or will produce superior tea.

I still think a lot of this actually depends on your local condition. What water do you use, and what does it taste like with different kettles? Just because it works with one person doesn't mean it'll work with another. I've had enough tea by now to know that much.

[Tead Off]

Sorry to mislead. I was talking about just using the water from a kettle to pour into a teapot with tea in it. But, since the tea kettle Intuit is talking about is not red clay, I am questioning its effect on the water that will be used to brew oolong tea.

So you think you could tell the difference in a blind tasting between oolong tea made with water boiled in a red clay kettle and tea made with water boiled in a kettle made of some other kind of earthenware? I would love to try that as an experiment, because if you can, you have an amazing palate.

Not sure if I could do it. But, in side by side tests with pots of different clay, my red clay pot beats out the purple and brownish ones I have every time with Oolongs, my preferred tea.

As far as the difference between kettle and brew pot go, if I were to buy a kettle, I would want it to change the structure of water for a better flavor. That is step 1. Step 2 would be using the best kind of pot for a given tea. Red clay is best for oolongs. Red clay and purple clay can change the flavor. Only red clay can keep both flavor and aroma very high. With this in mind, I would try to find a red clay kettle for my purposes. I would think having both kettle and pot of red clay would give the best results. At least I want to try it!

[Tead Off]

But the text you're quoting is talking about pots for brewing tea, not pots for boiling water for tea! I don't dispute that certain clay types may be better or worse for brewing certain types of tea, due to their different degrees of porousness, heat retention characteristics, etc. However, I'm not sure these same concepts can be applied at the same level to vessels used for boiling water for tea. Further, different types of red earthenware clay from different areas have very different properties.

Lastly, it seems as if you're taking one person's word as gospel (one person who has an interest in convincing people that what he's selling is better than what the other guy is selling at that). There is no single authority who has all the answers, and, like pretty much everything in tea, this is an area where there's a lot of debate.

Yes, different types of red clay are not all the same. But, it is the iron in them that makes them red. Next step is the processing (purity) and the firing which must be more than 1200c to get that porosity that is key to a good pot. Most pots are not fired that high.

Now you're point of taking one person's word as gospel is very important. I fully agree with you and a seller is always motivated to sell their own gear. In the case of Hojo, he is not the first to put forth all of this. This has been the wisdom for centuries. It's not something that started as a marketing gimmick. It had practical application and stood the test of time. The science has also caught up with a lot of lore but this one still is holding up. Hojo is a serious tea person. We should weigh his words and proceed to other sources of wisdom for comparison. But, the true test is to try the gear. But, then, the seller wins, eh?

[lamppost]

Hi Tead Off,

Do you have any Hojo's product/teapot that you can use to enlighten us? Like finding a good car mechanic, finding a thrustworthy online tea vendor is really hard.

Thanks

[Tead Off]

Hi Tead Off,

Do you have any Hojo's product/teapot that you can use to enlighten us? Like finding a good car mechanic, finding a thrustworthy online tea vendor is really hard.

Thanks

I will get to use his product next week when I visit his shop. I have just had preliminary conversations with him and he has always provided me with useful inforamation. It's a good beginning......