Official what Oolong are You Drinking Right Now?

[jayinhk]

Drinking 'horse meat' rou gui from the protected area in Wuyishan via a friend of the family! He has lived in Hong Kong for most of his life and receives tea from his garment suppliers on the Mainland regularly. He's known my family for over forty years.

He sent over some tea he received and I wasn't expecting much. Turns out I got high fire rougui from the Horse's Head Cliff/Rock and some good Souchong too. I haven't tried the Souchong yet, but I brewed up the rougui in 90s zisha. Very good tea with a full flavor that lasts for a LONG while on the palate. There is a note of something unpleasant underneath, however, which I am less than enthused about--tastes like roach spray to me. I hope what I'm tasting isn't pesticide residue! I brewed 10g in an 85ml pot, so quite an intense session. I have a half jin left, so I'll work my way through it over time, or toss it if I keep detecting that hint of roach spray under what is a very nice rougui otherwise.

Note to self: call your uncle and thank him! I'll probably give the souchong a whirl tomorrow.

show you a picture of horse head tomorrow i was there just 2 days ago.

Cool! Looking forward to seeing your pics!

[kyarazen]

Cool! Looking forward to seeing your pics!

[.m.]

That's really beautiful.

[victoria3]

Yes Kyarazen, I was speaking about Chen HauYing's DongDing which I got from him via your invitation. I really enjoyed its body, complexity and nuances. Thanks for the clarification.

I'd like to ask you about the LiShan I received with my order from Chen HauYing. Is this also grown by Chen HauYing in LiShan or...?
Also, I have read some of your commentary regarding southern traditions and styles in Taiwan. Do they still roast their oolongs longer? Prefer stronger longer steeps in general? Curious.

nope! it is grown by his friend in Li Shan. these are a group of next generation farmers that are not "bowing" to mass production and keeping to small farms, proper ways of making tea, etc not sure if you could understand chinese but i can forward you a video link to Chen's talk on the subject. for Li Shan wise, i've been working with him on seeking out more interesting teas from the farmer group, i.e. high altitude garden located between fushoushan and da yu ling, li shan "wild" leaves, and li shan "secret/private" tea garden teas.

taiwan is a mixed bag now.. so is china.. essentially longer roasted/multiple roasted teas can be brewed more intensely and steeped longer as the roasting rounds off the tea

So great that you are putting such an effort in to coordinate support for traditional farming methods and teas. Thanks for the offer of more info. but unfortunately I don't speak Chinese yet (Spanish, Italian, Portuguese yes). Of the three teas I received from Chen HauYing, I enjoyed his DongDing the most. The others are still too subtle and thin to my taste, so am still working on brewing parameters there. It is interesting because with Japanese teas I haven't come across this issue, only with certain oolongs from Taiwan. While I enjoy lightness and elegance, I also look for presence in the body. I know it's a contemporary style there now, and to be honest I was somewhat relieved when I read a post by MarshalN sometime ago that he rarely liked light Taiwan oolongs. But that was years ago so who knows now since tastes change over time.

Gorgeous place you visited!

[Tead Off]

Of the three teas I received from Chen HauYing, I enjoyed his DongDing the most. The others are still too subtle and thin to my taste, so am still working on brewing parameters there. It is interesting because with Japanese teas I haven't come across this issue, only with certain oolongs from Taiwan. While I enjoy lightness and elegance, I also look for presence in the body. I know it's a contemporary style there now, and to be honest I was somewhat relieved when I read a post by MarshalN sometime ago that he rarely liked light Taiwan oolongs. But that was years ago so who knows now since tastes change over time.

Japanese green teas are steamed. The taste profile is completely different from the Taiwan green oolongs. However, there are Japanese green teas that are thin and lighter than others.

With the Taiwan oolongs, there is a lot of variation in the 'green' style. They are not green teas but lightly oxidized. Terroir, farming methods, and processing will determine the body and taste/aroma profile. Include the season and the climate into the mix and variation occurs from season to season, year to year. I've found that the light oolongs hit and miss depending on the vendor and their suppliers. For example, I've been buying from Teafromtaiwan.com for many years. But, I've narrowed my selection down to two favorites. Wu Ling and Long Feng Xia. This spring I bought both. The Wu Ling from Lishan is rich with taste and body while the LFX from Shan Lin Xi is very light with thin body. Usually, I prefer winter harvest, but the LFX was particularly bland this spring and wouldn't buy again. Yet, I've had wonderful LFX from them over the years. The Wu Ling remains a top choice for me. Their DaYuLing has usually been good, too, but I didn't buy any this spring. I would say that either my tastes have changed or the quality level of many Taiwan teas has dropped considerably over the years. It's trial and error to find a vendor that has tea(s) that you will enjoy. But, maybe light Taiwan oolongs are not your thing. Maybe once you've developed a taste for roasted oolongs, the green style no longer satisfies that craving for stronger flavor.

[victoria3]

Of the three teas I received from Chen HauYing, I enjoyed his DongDing the most. The others are still too subtle and thin to my taste, so am still working on brewing parameters there. It is interesting because with Japanese teas I haven't come across this issue, only with certain oolongs from Taiwan. While I enjoy lightness and elegance, I also look for presence in the body. I know it's a contemporary style there now, and to be honest I was somewhat relieved when I read a post by MarshalN sometime ago that he rarely liked light Taiwan oolongs. But that was years ago so who knows now since tastes change over time.

Japanese green teas are steamed. The taste profile is completely different from the Taiwan green oolongs. However, there are Japanese green teas that are thin and lighter than others.

With the Taiwan oolongs, there is a lot of variation in the 'green' style. They are not green teas but lightly oxidized. Terroir, farming methods, and processing will determine the body and taste/aroma profile. Include the season and the climate into the mix and variation occurs from season to season, year to year. I've found that the light oolongs hit and miss depending on the vendor and their suppliers. For example, I've been buying from Teafromtaiwan.com for many years. But, I've narrowed my selection down to two favorites. Wu Ling and Long Feng Xia. This spring I bought both. The Wu Ling from Lishan is rich with taste and body while the LFX from Shan Lin Xi is very light with thin body. Usually, I prefer winter harvest, but the LFX was particularly bland this spring and wouldn't buy again. Yet, I've had wonderful LFX from them over the years. The Wu Ling remains a top choice for me. Their DaYuLing has usually been good, too, but I didn't buy any this spring. I would say that either my tastes have changed or the quality level of many Taiwan teas has dropped considerably over the years. It's trial and error to find a vendor that has tea(s) that you will enjoy. But, maybe light Taiwan oolongs are not your thing. Maybe once you've developed a taste for roasted oolongs, the green style no longer satisfies that craving for stronger flavor.

Yes, I've also found lighter oolongs can vary quite a bit, especially seasonally. Recently, I really enjoyed Floating Leaves Spring 2016 LiShan rich, super buttery, smooth (I'm getting more) yet their Winter 2016 LiShan pales in comparison, although the high mineral content was enjoyably effervescent. Norbu's 2014 Medium-Light-Roast LiShan and DongDing were excellent and with body. AliShan I've had the least luck with (in terms of body) so haven't bought any this year and am still working through a few DaYuLing's. I mentioned Japanese vs Taiwanese tea preferences as a cultural stylistic note, but you are correct in pointing out that steaming versus oxidizing has very different results. I'll have to try Teafromtaiwan's Wu Ling!

[Bok]

Of the three teas I received from Chen HauYing, I enjoyed his DongDing the most. The others are still too subtle and thin to my taste, so am still working on brewing parameters there. It is interesting because with Japanese teas I haven't come across this issue, only with certain oolongs from Taiwan. While I enjoy lightness and elegance, I also look for presence in the body. I know it's a contemporary style there now, and to be honest I was somewhat relieved when I read a post by MarshalN sometime ago that he rarely liked light Taiwan oolongs. But that was years ago so who knows now since tastes change over time.

Gorgeous place you visited!

Seems to me that the brewing is the issue, usually high mountain Oolongs should be anything else but light. The lighter, floral tastes points more to a lower elevation tea. Lishan should have a lot of body, more so in Winter than Spring though. Maybe you are too used to the way you brew your Japanese greens? Maybe try more leaf, more heat and see if that makes it more to your taste.

I completely second your feeling about teas from Alishan. More plain and flat in comparison to Lishan or Shanlinxi, in my opinion.

[victoria3]

Bok, I follow steeping parameters and then adjust up or down; using more leaf when necessary, just under boiling water generally, tea boat when needed, and extra time when needed, definitely not Japanese steeping parameters although I am very precise and keep notes. I do think in Taiwan there is a 'style that is light' bodied - not with all greener oolongs but definitely with some. Did you find our recent order of Fushoushan to be full bodied? (if so share your steeping parameters and we can compare notes). Not sure if you tried it and the LiShan from that order with Chen, which is I was originally was commenting on. Then again, it might just come down to personal preferences.

[Bok]

Bok, I follow steeping parameters and then adjust up or down; using more leaf when necessary, just under boiling water generally, tea boat when needed, and extra time when needed, definitely not Japanese steeping parameters although I am very precise and keep notes. I do think in Taiwan there is a 'style that is light' bodied - not with all greener oolongs but definitely with some. Did you find our recent order of Fushoushan to be full bodied? (if so share your steeping parameters and we can compare notes). Not sure if you tried it and the LiShan from that order with Chen, which is I was originally was commenting on. Then again, it might just come down to personal preferences.

As I said the light bodied is more typical of lower elevations – and sometimes the organic teas can seem a little on the lighter side too, which is definitely a possibility for the Fushou shan. I haven’t ordered it, but had it in the past. I remember being a bit disapointed at the time as it does not have an obvious high mountain kick from the get go, but is more of a slow burner.

I almost exclusively drink Lishan (light oxidised, middle and roasted until black Lishan), so it is a tea which I am intimately familiar, nonwithstanding the large variety that you can find in that one kind of Gaoshan tea. Where I buy my tea I am often surprised how many different flavour profiles already come out of one farm only! Even one day difference from the same spot can already be quite different.

All that said, high mountain shouldn’t be light-bodied in my experience. Especially this year’s spring harvest had almost Winter-qualities.
A lot of Taiwanese like to brew it rather light. Not too my taste I prefer more flavur and am happy not too stretch my tea to 12 infusions but stay happy with at least 6 excellent ones

I have never timed or measured how I make my tea, so I can’t comment on parameters. I kind of developed a feeling based on eyesight, smell, etc. I also found that personal mood and other seemingly circumstantial things influence the taste of a brew quite a lot (I never make tea when angry or in a stress). Heat-wise I go with crab-eye water, but it can be hotter to, good Oolong can take it and is a lot more forgiving than the Japanese teas.

[kyarazen]

Bok, I follow steeping parameters and then adjust up or down; using more leaf when necessary, just under boiling water generally, tea boat when needed, and extra time when needed, definitely not Japanese steeping parameters although I am very precise and keep notes. I do think in Taiwan there is a 'style that is light' bodied - not with all greener oolongs but definitely with some. Did you find our recent order of Fushoushan to be full bodied? (if so share your steeping parameters and we can compare notes). Not sure if you tried it and the LiShan from that order with Chen, which is I was originally was commenting on. Then again, it might just come down to personal preferences.

[/quote]


its the processing method and origin..

strictly speaking... perhaps only the muzha or dongding of taiwan is a tea that has some "Bone" but most of the teas from taiwan is only the skin/meat..

if you want full skin, meat, and bone, and even the spirit of the tea and the place.. you may have to look at mainland teas.. >.<

high altitude teas are easily summarized as a mountain airy feel, but no "earth" feel

[kyarazen]

So great that you are putting such an effort in to coordinate support for traditional farming methods and teas. Thanks for the offer of more info. but unfortunately I don't speak Chinese yet (Spanish, Italian, Portuguese yes). Of the three teas I received from Chen HauYing, I enjoyed his DongDing the most. The others are still too subtle and thin to my taste, so am still working on brewing parameters there. It is interesting because with Japanese teas I haven't come across this issue, only with certain oolongs from Taiwan. While I enjoy lightness and elegance, I also look for presence in the body. I know it's a contemporary style there now, and to be honest I was somewhat relieved when I read a post by MarshalN sometime ago that he rarely liked light Taiwan oolongs. But that was years ago so who knows now since tastes change over time.

Gorgeous place you visited!

you should be relieved to know that I don't really drink green teas (not any more not even sheng pu), and i rarely liked taiwanese light oxidation oolongs. i'm a mid oxidation and higher, and light, mid, to heavy roast person so most of the lishan and dayuling and fushoushan are teas that i drink for fun but i'm never personally serious about them. a recent lishan "wild" gave me the bite that i liked, but i'm requesting and hoping it to be made into.. higher oxidation i also have custom roasted green fushoushan, and roasted dayuling.... just made for ME...

wuyi is a gorgeous place.. went to see the exact bushes of the tea i drank and had also the deepest insight into wuyi teas and the future of it
found also another nice vendor whom owns a factory and tea gardens in wuyi but i'm probably not going to trade his tea because that's not what I do . so if anyone wants a contact and wishes to visit his shop front to have some tastings of natural, non fragrance added teas... or access to niu rou.. ma rou etc.. just send me a pm and i'll send you his assistant's contact.

[jayinhk]

wuyi is a gorgeous place.. went to see the exact bushes of the tea i drank and had also the deepest insight into wuyi teas and the future of it
found also another nice vendor whom owns a factory and tea gardens in wuyi but i'm probably not going to trade his tea because that's not what I do . so if anyone wants a contact and wishes to visit his shop front to have some tastings of natural, non fragrance added teas... or access to niu rou.. ma rou etc.. just send me a pm and i'll send you his assistant's contact.

Would love to hear what you heard about the future of Wuyicha, and your observations there! Amazing pic btw. Would love to see that in person some time! I'd like the contact as I want to see how the ma rou I got compares!

[victoria3]

Bok, I follow steeping parameters and then adjust up or down; using more leaf when necessary, just under boiling water generally, tea boat when needed, and extra time when needed, definitely not Japanese steeping parameters although I am very precise and keep notes. I do think in Taiwan there is a 'style that is light' bodied - not with all greener oolongs but definitely with some. Did you find our recent order of Fushoushan to be full bodied? (if so share your steeping parameters and we can compare notes). Not sure if you tried it and the LiShan from that order with Chen, which is I was originally was commenting on. Then again, it might just come down to personal preferences.

its the processing method and origin..

strictly speaking... perhaps only the muzha or dongding of taiwan is a tea that has some "Bone" but most of the teas from taiwan is only the skin/meat..

if you want full skin, meat, and bone, and even the spirit of the tea and the place.. you may have to look at mainland teas.. >.<

high altitude teas are easily summarized as a mountain airy feel, but no "earth" feel

Lovely metaphors! I do enjoy the sublet lyrical elegance of mountain teas, yet with presence. I'm probably ready to explore some Chinese teas from reputable sources. These past five years I have focused on Japanese teas, and then three years ago added oolongs from Taiwan. I enjoy the focus and study of one region at a time, exploring and researching the microclimates, cultures, histories all leading to a greater appreciation overall. It's an interesting journey.

[victoria3]

So great that you are putting such an effort in to coordinate support for traditional farming methods and teas. Thanks for the offer of more info. but unfortunately I don't speak Chinese yet (Spanish, Italian, Portuguese yes). Of the three teas I received from Chen HauYing, I enjoyed his DongDing the most. The others are still too subtle and thin to my taste, so am still working on brewing parameters there. It is interesting because with Japanese teas I haven't come across this issue, only with certain oolongs from Taiwan. While I enjoy lightness and elegance, I also look for presence in the body. I know it's a contemporary style there now, and to be honest I was somewhat relieved when I read a post by MarshalN sometime ago that he rarely liked light Taiwan oolongs. But that was years ago so who knows now since tastes change over time.

Gorgeous place you visited

you should be relieved to know that I don't really drink green teas (not any more not even sheng pu), and i rarely liked taiwanese light oxidation oolongs. i'm a mid oxidation and higher, and light, mid, to heavy roast person so most of the lishan and dayuling and fushoushan are teas that i drink for fun but i'm never personally serious about them. a recent lishan "wild" gave me the bite that i liked, but i'm requesting and hoping it to be made into.. higher oxidation i also have custom roasted green fushoushan, and roasted dayuling.... just made for ME...

wuyi is a gorgeous place.. went to see the exact bushes of the tea i drank and had also the deepest insight into wuyi teas and the future of it
found also another nice vendor whom owns a factory and tea gardens in wuyi but i'm probably not going to trade his tea because that's not what I do . so if anyone wants a contact and wishes to visit his shop front to have some tastings of natural, non fragrance added teas... or access to niu rou.. ma rou etc.. just send me a pm and i'll send you his assistant's contact.

Glad to know I'm not such an odd ball after all. Interesting that you are roasting. Stovetop, oven, outdoor oven? Sounds delicious really.

By the way, today I revisited the Fushoushan and decided to raise the volume and change vessels. The first three times I brewed this tea were done in a 110ml factory 1 yixing, a 170ml Imari lidded porcelain bowl & a 300ml porcelain kyusu that I have back east. At the end of the day today I decided to use my humble yet reliably performing 200ml CCCI yixing, increase the heat with a teaboat, increase leaf and time. This strategy worked well 10gr/120ml/off boil/105sec. using your recommended lukewarm prewash and gentle water dispensing in the beginning. Smooth buttery with body increasing more so into the 3-6th steeps. I'm sipping the 6th steep now and the buttery smooth notes are still present with high mineral notes. Even so I feel I'm pushing it to perform with body, when it wants to be light and airy. Enjoyable even so.

[ethan]

From Taiwan lightly roasted & slightly oxidized tiequanyin: Using a porcelain gaiwan & keeping the lid on, though for TGY like this & green goashan I often steep in bowls w/ no lid. Most important seems the rinse/preheat of the pearls & keeping steeping time short. I am getting the most out of this tea for flavor I like, but the taste I don't like to be strong is also there too strongly for me. I have called it bitter aftertaste. A lot of people in Taiwan like that characteristic. I've heard this aftertaste called sweet. I like Bok's term, "dirty ruggedness."

My oldest brother woke up & joined me. He thinks this is very good tea. I think it is better than most low-oxidized TGY & like it a little. "So what?" I ask myself because I much prefer a Spring 2016 Baozhong that I have in quantity in my teabox. It is much better for me because it is more floral & dynamic; &, the sweetness though delicate shines w/o a strongly competing taste of dirty ruggedness hampering full enjoyment.

I watch my brother prepare a third round properly (using the timing feature of my Bonavita kettle). If he is paying attention to preparation, he really likes the tea. He is 77 years old & can still get greedy & excited from good tea & good food. Funny to see him wake up to urinate, see I am drinking tea, & decide to stay up a while to drink w/ me. (He's leaving early in the morning & we haven't seen each other in 2 months. Good to be together at 1:30 am or so.)