The unofficial/official HAGI topic!

[Chip]

Very interesting ...

I have been fully entrenched in trying to grasp some information regarding Hagi lately. Since it is hard to come by, I will endeavor to share with you as I get it from Japan.

I recently noticed several teabowls floating around out there called "Ippuku-wan" produced by Seigan in various glazes at what seems to be a pretty affordable price of 34-45 USD. Since I have been working on some TCer Hagi Special Offers that were similar shapes, but not called Ippuku-wan and were generally about the same price despite the Special Offer pricing, I had to find out more ... and then even moar.

I noticed the Ippuku-wan sets did not include a wood box, but did include a Chataku and were offered as such by several vendors. What I did find out is that they are mass produced units, usually produced in quantities over 1000 at a time (1,300 was quoted by Seigan).

This is compared to runs of 1-50ish of the more "exclusive" pieces such as ones I have been working on for Special Offers. Of the 1-50 pieces started by Seigan, as few as 10% to as many as 50% will receive the ultimate seal of approval of Seigan and then the more exclusive sellers of Hagi who also reject pieces commonly and return them to the Kiln. I found this pretty interesting.

One item that I have been working on for the SO's has had 0% meeting Seigan's standard for such an item in 2 consecutive runs, thus the SO has had to wait for 3 months so far, this will be a very special offering, indeed!!! BUT it will be worth the wait.

[Chip]

One Hagi vendor I am working with has concluded they will not carry the Ippuku line because they sell to both Japanese and the world over, and therefore generally refuse to sell mass produced items. Other vendors will sell both Ippuku and the limited run items.

Generally large gift stores and chains sell only the Ippuku line (and other mass produced lines) and cannot be bothered by the more exclusive runs and the production problems associated with them, and the price point is the primary objective of such outlets. Plus artisans such as Seigan could not stock such outlets with their more exclusive lines, nor would they want to ... I suspect.

But what I have noticed is that this appears common practice of Hagi artisans. Deishi, Seigan, and even more exclusive and expensive artisans as Kashun and Susumu will offer a few more mass produced items, perhaps to keep the kilns going and to meet a larger market and lower price point.

[Chip]

I am told that the clay used may be more generic, less craftsmanship may be used (for instance the foot may be entire instead of notched or more ornate), some automation, some apprentice involvement and less master involvement, less "risk" taken in order to produce higher yield/success rate, lower sand ratio, etc. I think non mass produced pieces may offer more Wabi Sabi?

When I first saw these pieces, I thought they must be loss leader items offered to attract business of several vendors, but not really so, they are mass procuced items with a lower price point objective.

Very interesting ...

BTW, I own a few of these Ippuku pieces and use them quite a bit. I have noticed "the difference," but I still can enjoy using them. Still, good to know for future reference.

[Chip]

... and lastly, I will always endeavor to obtain non mass produced pieces for TeaChat Hagi Special Offers, opting more for exclusive and different. The price is not that much higher ... and sometimes cheaper thanks to Mago and my "tough negotiating skills."

[kymidwife]

You are a wealth of Hagi information! Thanks again for the time and effort you are investing in the special offers. For those of us who have been bitten by the Hagi bug, the exclusive nature of these opportunities is a real pleasure.

Sarah

[Victoria]

I was told "Ippuku-wan" refers to the size, which is in between a matcha chawan and a yunomi. Perhaps this is not a popular size in Japan and therefore mass produced for sales/export.

I am looking forward to the next TC Special Offering, I'm sure it will be of the the highest quality and a one of a kind offering. And I hope it is coming SOON!!!

[Chip]

The name may refer to size (I am asking for a direct translation), but this particular line is mass produced for sale in Japan and abroad. It is in Seigan's Catalog and priced accordingly on the wholesale level. Most of the more limited run items simply are not in the catalog, just does not make economic sense to do so. It is also notewrthy again in that it does not include the collector's wood box.

The Ippuku-wan are produced in runs of 1300+/-, so says Seigan as of yesterday.

I have 2 Ippuku-wan, they are nice, and I use the one quite a bit which will not change with this information. But there are differences when compared side by side with limited run items.

There is nothing "wrong" with mass runs per se, and Seigan's kiln does a good job with them, I bought 2 after all. But for the vast majority of my Hagi purchases, I would much rather own very limited runs/offerings.

BTW, the next Special Offering is a limited run of 50, of which only 10 to 20 were successful. Stay tuned!!! It is coming, really it is.

[Chip]

You are a wealth of Hagi information! Thanks again for the time and effort you are investing in the special offers. For those of us who have been bitten by the Hagi bug, the exclusive nature of these opportunities is a real pleasure.

Sarah

Thank you! But I am just obsessed.

[Tead Off]

The name may refer to size (I am asking for a direct translation), but this particular line is mass produced for sale in Japan and abroad. It is in Seigan's Catalog and priced accordingly on the wholesale level. Most of the more limited run items simply are not in the catalog, just does not make economic sense to do so. It is also notewrthy again in that it does not include the collector's wood box.

The Ippuku-wan are produced in runs of 1300+/-, so says Seigan as of yesterday.

I have 2 Ippuku-wan, they are nice, and I use the one quite a bit which will not change with this information. But there are differences when compared side by side with limited run items.

There is nothing "wrong" with mass runs per se, and Seigan's kiln does a good job with them, I bought 2 after all. But for the vast majority of my Hagi purchases, I would much rather own very limited runs/offerings.

BTW, the next Special Offering is a limited run of 50, of which only 10 to 20 were successful. Stay tuned!!! It is coming, really it is.

Chip, what kind of differences do you notice?

[chicagopotter]

BTW, the next Special Offering is a limited run of 50, of which only 10 to 20 were successful. Stay tuned!!! It is coming, really it is.

Ok, got to be the devil's advocate. If there are only 10 to 20 pieces available, how will you ensure a fair allotment of pieces to teachatters? With first come/first serve all the pieces could be snatched up even before many teachatters find out they are available...

[Geekgirl]

Heh, I say that everytime I go to ebay. "Hey NO FAIR! that person outbid me!" Oh yeah, and Etsy when someone else is faster than I am.

[Chip]

Chip, what kind of differences do you notice?

The differences were noticable rather immediately, the glaze on the inside and outside though nice, was not spectacular nor as well done like the very limited run version. Possibly a higher tolerance in quality control inspections?

The foot is entire versus notched on all my other cukes (5). The exposed clay appears to be different.

The attention to detail on the limited run is evident, for instance the glazing on the inside of all the limited run pieces is spectacular while just so so on the mass produced pieces.

Still, the mass produced pieces are certainly not "junk." I actually own 2 sets of more generic mass produced Hagi cups that are pale by comparison to the Seigan mass productions.

[Chip]

BTW, the next Special Offering is a limited run of 50, of which only 10 to 20 were successful. Stay tuned!!! It is coming, really it is.

Ok, got to be the devil's advocate. If there are only 10 to 20 pieces available, how will you ensure a fair allotment of pieces to teachatters? With first come/first serve all the pieces could be snatched up even before many teachatters find out they are available...

Heh, what Geek said.

All is fair in love and Hagi!!!!

Seriously, I try to figure what is a good number of units, started off thinking 5 would be enough, then 10, now with the next offerings, it will be 15.

In order to be fair to the vendor who is going to a lot of trouble to make this happen, I want to assure a sell out as soon as possible, this way I know we can continue with the program. But I get nervous each time.

It can never be completely fair, just a good balance between fair to members and fair to the vendor.

By the way, just got pics for the next offer, and ooooh myyy goshhhh! Wowza, stunning!!!!!!

[chicagopotter]

Thanks Chip. Like I said, had to ask...

[Victoria]

I am really excited about the Hagi TeaChat special offering in loquat or "Biwa" glaze, so I will also have a loquat bowl in a more usable size.

Although quite beautiful, I rarely reach for this Deishi loquat chawan.



I am really excited to see all the home pics of all the shades that were offered in the smaller bowls. Some real beauties there! I had a very hard deciding on just one.