Chao Zhou Teapot?

[chrl42]

I have all respect for Imen, for her reputation and experience of drinking tea

Here are what I saw difference from Shan Tou and Zhuni..

1) Shan Tou is made from clay while Zhuni is made from ore, so Shan Tou is made in wheeling device (like normal potter's clay) but Zhuni is made in entirely hand-molding

2) Shan Tou's absorptiveness ranges to 7% (so it's recommended for fermented teas) while Zhuni's 1% (good for fragnant Oolong), normal Yixing clay rages 2~4%

3) Zhuni shrinks much higher than Shan Tou, so wrinkles are left while Shan Tou isn't

4) From what I know, Shan Tou's fired at 6~700c and Zhuni's average firing temp is 1050~1080c. I don't know if Shan Tou is highly crystallized as well

5) Zhuni is much heavier than Shan Tou

All I wanna say is, if Shan Tou is fine, it's fine that way. Cos that just widens us pot addicts eyes and give more opportunities...

[Maitre_Tea]

I have all respect for Imen, for her reputation and experience of drinking tea

Here are what I saw difference from Shan Tou and Zhuni..

1) Shan Tou is made from clay while Zhuni is made from ore, so Shan Tou is made in wheeling device (like normal potter's clay) but Zhuni is made in entirely hand-molding

2) Shan Tou's absorptiveness ranges to 7% (so it's recommended for fermented teas) while Zhuni's 1% (good for fragnant Oolong), normal Yixing clay rages 2~4%

3) Zhuni shrinks much higher than Shan Tou, so wrinkles are left while Shan Tou isn't

4) From what I know, Shan Tou's fired at 6~700c and Zhuni's average firing temp is 1050~1080c. I don't know if Shan Tou is highly crystallized as well

5) Zhuni is much heavier than Shan Tou

All I wanna say is, if Shan Tou is fine, it's fine that way. Cos that just widens us pot addicts eyes and give more opportunities...

That absorptiveness is probably why Imen recommends it for Sheng Pu'er. Ergh, I'm looking forward to buying it next week the second I get my paycheck!

[Salsero]

Here are what I saw difference from Shan Tou and Zhuni..

Is Shan Tou the name of the clay used in Chao Zhou pots or is it a different transliteration of Chao Zhou?

[wyardley]

Is Shan Tou the name of the clay used in Chao Zhou pots or is it a different transliteration of Chao Zhou?

It's a nearby city. As I understand it, both are used to describe the same pots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shantou

[Tead Off]

....The only thing that concerns me about any clay, anywhere in the world, is 'Is it pure or does it have additives'? If Zhaozhou clay is pure, then there is no reason to think it won't brew good tea. So far, no one has answered this question. And, so far, there is no evidence of testing Zhaozhou clay for it's iron content. Anyone can claim anything about these pots but I'd like to see a clay analysis. It's an easy thing to do and if sellers lie Imen make a statement like this, she has to back it up with lab tests.

..."With due respect, how can we know what pure clay is? Certainly, it is not what a group of tea drinkers agree it is or from a lab test statement . If we are honest with ourselves, we don't really know what anything is, or what pure clay means?"....

Haha. That is definitely my position. But, what something is and what something is made out of, are 2 different things. But, what I was referring to was simply the iron content of Zhaozhou clay which can be analyzed in a test. If it is 12%, I will still not know what iron is, just that it is 12% of the clay.

Going further, not philosophically, what do the potters in Zhaozhou do with the clay after they mine it? Do we face the same 'problems' that many yixing potters have created by mixing oxides for color and many types of clay together forming a 'mutt' of sorts and still calling it by a famous name?

This is more a curiosity for me as I don't know much about ZZ pots. I've often admired their yellowish red color and they have been less expensive than their yixing counterparts. Perhaps marketing is responsible for that. Cheers.

[Tead Off]

Some information from Imen about the differences between Chao Zhou and Yixing...

"Chao Zhou Clay has higher iron content than Yixing Zhuni, the composition of Chao zhou clay is mainly iron and quartz, hence the bright red with consistency. Firing temperature is between 1160 to 1180 degrees C. Shrinkage of CZ is barely 12% from wet clay to finished firing,6% from dried mold to finished firing. Therefore very easy to work with, that's also why cz lids are much tighter than Yixing, it's the reason why tea won't get moldy for 10 days. Small shrinkage also allow potters to make thin and large open pots, hence perfect for the size and sensitivity of Dan Cong teas.

I don't know Yixing enough to provide such information. I believe Yixing zhuni contains more varieties of mineral than CZ, that's also why Yixing zhuni colors vary a wide range of red compare to CZ."

The only thing that concerns me about any clay, anywhere in the world, is 'Is it pure or does it have additives'? If Zhaozhou clay is pure, then there is no reason to think it won't brew good tea. So far, no one has answered this question. And, so far, there is no evidence of testing Zhaozhou clay for it's iron content. Anyone can claim anything about these pots but I'd like to see a clay analysis. It's an easy thing to do and if sellers lie Imen make a statement like this, she has to back it up with lab tests.

I'm pretty sure that lab tests like this are probably expensive. I'll report back when I have the disposable income to conclusively prove this. Or maybe you can put forth such a test? Or maybe we have a geologist amongst our ranks here on TeaChat. I'd actually be very interested in seeing the results. I think that the questions you point out are valid for any vendor out there, and I don't know of any vendors off the top of my head that can publish conclusive scientific results.

And if they can, than maybe someone will question the scientific quality of the test, or any bias that might be involved, or maybe the possibility of a false positive, etc. I'd be super-impressed with any vendor that can provide this information though, but it'd probably be crazy expensive, since they'd need to do clay analysis on all their products, and their products will def. be more expensive too.

I think my advice is: Buy from reputable sources, because reputable sources are less likely to lie to you. They still can, but the chance is smaller. Imen has a nice credentials amongst the tea-drinkers here so I trust what she's selling.

I'm buying one of these pots too, and hopefully I can taste a difference personally. Granted, it might be a placebo effect, but if I think it's better, than I'm happy. The pots themselves aren't too expensive, when compared to other vendors, so even if I'm not impressed, I still get a pretty sweet deal out of it.

The only vendor I know of that has either had tests done or has access to tests from 3rd parties is Hojo who can come up with analysis for 3 types of wares he carries, Sado, Tokoname, Banko. I don't think it is that expensive to have done but this should be the vendors responsibility, not the buyers, IMO. Also, the testing should be done on the clay itself before processing.

I am not trying to paint Imen in a bad light at all. She does have a good reputation and her site is helpful. The Zhaozhou pots she offers are lovely and they are made well. But, to compare these with yixing zhuni may not be accurate. You can refer to chrl42's post on the differences.

[Maitre_Tea]

Maybe for Hojo he doesn't need to pay for any tests, since I feel that Japanese industry practices are probably more thorough than Chinese ones. I can see it being extremely difficult to secure reliable information from production centers in China, unless there's a person on-site or something. And I agree that you can't compare Chao Zhou to Zhuni, they're like apples or oranges. When I make my order I'll ask her how Chao Zhou industry practices are, if the potters use additives or whatever.

[Oni]

I have purchased one CZ teapot, I will test it with Dancong, it is easy after seasoning it, I will brew the same DC in a gaiwam, a yixing zhu ni, a yixing di ciao qing, and the CZ pot, if the latter beats all of these than the teapot is good for Dancong, I know at least it is better than a gaiwan, even without trying it I know that, you can control the pour and if it has a lot of iron, it has great heat retention. I think we do not need laboratories for testing, just use our sensors and compare, I usually do this with my teaware and tea, I am experimenting always.

[Maitre_Tea]

I have purchased one CZ teapot, I will test it with Dancong, it is easy after seasoning it, I will brew the same DC in a gaiwam, a yixing zhu ni, a yixing di ciao qing, and the CZ pot, if the latter beats all of these than the teapot is good for Dancong, I know at least it is better than a gaiwan, even without trying it I know that, you can control the pour and if it has a lot of iron, it has great heat retention. I think we do not need laboratories for testing, just use our sensors and compare, I usually do this with my teaware and tea, I am experimenting always.

Did you purchase it from Imen? I just bought one from her too, and only two remain out of her original stock of 10 are sold out. I wonder if we're the reason why they're selling like hotcakes. I'll report back to base when it arrives...I'm very excited about this

[Herb_Master]

I hope she gets some more before Christmas, I was hoping to buy a couple for myself.

[Ms Kita B]

She has more! I just purchased:





I don't plan on purchasing anymore anytime soon. I have have spent more than enough on tea and teaware!

[Herb_Master]

Wow a Sandy Brown one at 200ml, I would like a sandy brown one at 140ml

if these sell as quickly as the last I suspect she will get more

I see yours has a ball filter, any chance of a photo?

[Ms Kita B]

I'll post pics as soon as I receive them. I also have another on the way so 3 in total.

[Oni]

For Chao Zhou gong fu tea ceremony one needs a CZ stove, a CZ teapot and jingdezhen porcelain cups, Herbmaster would be the only one beside Imen to own all the right equipment for Dancong, I am looking forward to reading your posts.

[Herb_Master]

For Chao Zhou gong fu tea ceremony one needs a CZ stove, a CZ teapot and jingdezhen porcelain cups, Herbmaster would be the only one beside Imen to own all the right equipment for Dancong, I am looking forward to reading your posts.

Nope, sorry, I have yet to acquire a CZ teapot, it is near the top of my hit list, for the pots I am using right now are not thin walled.

There is a lot of inquisitive talk about clay and CZ teapots on this thread, NOTE that Imen wrote about them in her blog on August 3

Why use a Chao Zhou clay pot?
For Dan Cong teas, Chao Zhou is preferred over Yixing, because it's made to enhance Dan Cong for number of reasons:
1, clay has the same composition of minerals as the tea trees are grown
2, the wall is thin so it doesn't simmer the leaves
3, shape is also made to accommodate the leaf shape of dan cong
4, spout is medium to big that is easy to control pouring speed since dan cong is extremely sensitive to timing and temperature.
5, size of pots are small, makes 3 to 4 little cups of tea, just enough to drink it fast while it's hot.
6, it's also a timer, after pouring hot water over the exterior, when dried, the tea is also ready for the first 2-3 brews.

More can be read here http://tea-obsession.blogspot.com/2009/ ... t-how.html