Questions on Zhuni

[chrl42]

I dunno the correct datas of NGT, I mean..who cares I don't really like the clay cos it doesn't play well with Yancha and lacks porosity.

But usually F1 was well-named to keep the previous mined clays stored for long..Yixing clay usually needs a decade to store before using for making teapot.


For Zhuni relations with NGT..it's not something to confirm without actual interviewing with the clay producer..and also is the hardest part when studying Yixing clay

According to Zhu Ze-wei's book, F1 had several mines during the early days except for HLS 1~5 mines..early Hongnis are sorta denser to recent Hongni and that could have come from Zhaozhaung mines and could have been felt as sorta Zhuni-like. Who knows, someone might have added a kaolin to Yixing clay to play in slipcast, as kaolin naturally gets more crystallized than Yixing clay..but my feeling is NGT seems more than just finely seived Hongni..that kind of weight and texture is so somewhat special..

[AT333]

Bravo chrl42, kyarazen. You are both pushing this forum to a much higher level of discussions. I love to see the community here having very good collections. Perhaps in near future, in our teawares swap posting we can see ROC, Qing or pots of that level being offered.

[kyarazen]

I dunno the correct datas of NGT, I mean..who cares I don't really like the clay cos it doesn't play well with Yancha and lacks porosity.

But usually F1 was well-named to keep the previous mined clays stored for long..Yixing clay usually needs a decade to store before using for making teapot.

its ok not to like something definitely, well, even zhuni lacks porosity unless underfired. but the informations need to be clarified

would you mean to erode for 10 years or to store for 10 years? given the production numbers of yixing F1 and how exponential it was, it would be hard to think that 10 years ago they had planned the clay quantity for the ongoing production 10 years after.. this was obviously reflected in 60s hongni where fine silvery mica donts are not visible to the naked eye usually, neither was it apparent in the 60s qing shuinis, and only when production went up, the clay was less and less "ripe", as seen in mid 70s to 80s wares.

For Zhuni relations with NGT..it's not something to confirm without actual interviewing with the clay producer..and also is the hardest part when studying Yixing clay

apart from yixing kuang ye, whom would be the other clay producers for F1? if you know who, and where to ask/interview, let me know, i'll contact some of the regular yixing visitors to see if they can dig up more info.

According to Zhu Ze-wei's book, F1 had several mines during the early days except for HLS 1~5 mines..early Hongnis are sorta denser to recent Hongni and that could have come from Zhaozhaung mines and could have been felt as sorta Zhuni-like. Who knows, someone might have added a kaolin to Yixing clay to play in slipcast, as kaolin naturally gets more crystallized than Yixing clay..but my feeling is NGT seems more than just finely seived Hongni..that kind of weight and texture is so somewhat special..

in the below mentioned, there was a paragraph from Dr Lu, that had mentioned that the current more concrete theory on NGT is that it is a unique strata that was mined during the period of end 70s to early 80s, and was seldom/if not never re-discovered, not so much of a blend. The demand for niangao type of clay pots is still there, if a blend like pin-zi, te-pin, hei-pin, who wouldnt want to replicate niangao again? if it does contain zhu-ni, it doesnt seem to shrink that much, and at the same time is way more durable, not cracking nor busting as easily as zhuni. have you seen examples of slip-casted nian-gao pots? i've yet to see one but i would love to if you could point me to some

[kyarazen]

Bravo chrl42, kyarazen. You are both pushing this forum to a much higher level of discussions. I love to see the community here having very good collections. Perhaps in near future, in our teawares swap posting we can see ROC, Qing or pots of that level being offered.

hmm.. but we need more participants

i definitely would love to see the international community having very good collections. Historically, the very opulent in the west had fantastic ceramic and porcelain collections. the taiwanese and chinese have regained a bit of foothold in this. due to heavy chinese, taiwanese and south east asian demands, the pressure on F1 pot prices and antique pot prices i.e. ROC, Qing etc, is rather high, supplies have dwindled, prices have gone up.

and then i would have friends from the west whom would ask me, hey! how is this $20 pot different from that $1000 one? both are shuiping, reddish in color etc. only through education and allowing others to learn how to appreciate the materials, pots, eras, design etc, that people would start to see the aesthetics, history and value in a pot, if not a $1000 pot would simply be just another over priced clay vessel.

[chrl42]

its ok not to like something definitely, well, even zhuni lacks porosity unless underfired. but the informations need to be clarified

would you mean to erode for 10 years or to store for 10 years? given the production numbers of yixing F1 and how exponential it was, it would be hard to think that 10 years ago they had planned the clay quantity for the ongoing production 10 years after.. this was obviously reflected in 60s hongni where fine silvery mica donts are not visible to the naked eye usually, neither was it apparent in the 60s qing shuinis, and only when production went up, the clay was less and less "ripe", as seen in mid 70s to 80s wares.

Modern Zhuni yes, old Zhuni no. NGT was the only F1 clay I know of that lacks porosity and that I don't like.

I talk about 陈腐, any Yixing clay wants 'storing' before being made into teapot, mostly for plasticity reasons. Exception is Zhuni, from what I know, Zhuni is the only clay that doesn't require 陈腐 because the clay naturally has excellant plasticy. Hongni? not sure.

The one who just try to use newly mined clays for teapot right away are recent potters who sought for money..as opposed to old F1 potters..whose clays seem to undergo decades..and the difference is reflected quite well as I hear of. That's where your understanding differs from mine

in the below mentioned, there was a paragraph from Dr Lu, that had mentioned that the current more concrete theory on NGT is that it is a unique strata that was mined during the period of end 70s to early 80s, and was seldom/if not never re-discovered, not so much of a blend. The demand for niangao type of clay pots is still there, if a blend like pin-zi, te-pin, hei-pin, who wouldnt want to replicate niangao again? if it does contain zhu-ni, it doesnt seem to shrink that much, and at the same time is way more durable, not cracking nor busting as easily as zhuni. have you seen examples of slip-casted nian-gao pots? i've yet to see one but i would love to if you could point me to some

Mined during 7~80s? Which mine? 60-hole was a normal size of a sieve for F1 clay and why NGT seems +100-hole?

and I didn't say NGT contains Zhuni, I talked in comparison that its characteritics might follow Zhuni...btw I think the convo gone quite far from the plasticity issue.

[Tead Off]

What we really need on this forum are some Yixing potters who actually know what they're talking about regarding clays, their preparation and curing, present availability, and issues of creating pots with them. Having an intellectual understanding of names, categories, etc., doesn't really help a collector except in conversation. The hands-on aspect of Yixing is not teachable through a forum like this. I'm not suggesting that the conversation should stop, just pointing to its inherent limitations and the false assumptions that many people reading this are likely to make. The knowledge of clays has to translate to the identification of what they look like as a teapot. It can only happen if someone is lucky enough to be around the actual goods and shown what the differences and issues are. You can't really learn this stuff through pictures. You only learn to guess better than you did when you began. It's a tough road without having someone take you by the hand.

[AT333]

Good observation Tead Off. I hope the discussion will continue as we have thousands or millions of viewers here. No matter how trivial or irrelevant, it may be a crucial missing link for some people. Thank you.

[AT333]

Anyone know the evolution of zhuni pots from early to 50s era? I am curious how the cover, the spout, the holes, the base, the handle etc changes from early era to 1950s or 60s. Thank you.

[kyarazen]

Anyone know the evolution of zhuni pots from early to 50s era? I am curious how the cover, the spout, the holes, the base, the handle etc changes from early era to 1950s or 60s. Thank you.

i suppose you should know kenny from zisha yishu very well? you should drop by and ask him on that, one of the best persons to consult on zhuni

in the recent months or so there was quite some mudslinging in the southeast asian to taiwanese zhuni circles, i wouldnt want any involvement

[AT333]

i suppose you should know kenny from zisha yishu very well? you should drop by and ask him on that, one of the best persons to consult on zhuni

in the recent months or so there was quite some mudslinging in the southeast asian to taiwanese zhuni circles, i wouldnt want any involvement

Nothing beats learning from the comfort of the desktop. With generous people like you and many others to share their knowledge, it seems a logical choice. I seldom drop by zisha yishu shop. Kenny is extremely nice and knowledgable vendor but I sometimes got limited budget and embarrass to get into the obligation to buy although the he is not pushy at all and his price is fair. It is more fun to learn rather than own.

Mudslinging in Taiwan forum on zhuni? I think if the contributor qualify their statement it would be lesser mud to sling. But then again, everyone has their passions in different directions.

For me, I realised having the best question is better than having the best answer...especially for long term learning

Thank you for your generosity in sharing kyarazen and please do let me know what you think of the answer above, that is, if it is a good questions. It is for others to learn too.

[BW85]

from the start of Factory 1 in '58, they never used zhuni at all

If factory 1 didn't use zhuni, and other factories weren't around yet, who made this pot?
http://www.sampletea.com/product/1970s- ... eapot-60ml

[kyarazen]

from the start of Factory 1 in '58, they never used zhuni at all

If factory 1 didn't use zhuni, and other factories weren't around yet, who made this pot?
http://www.sampletea.com/product/1970s- ... eapot-60ml

thats a very good question...

which probably indicates that this pot.. might not be from the said era recently someone actually came onto one of the teapot groups on facebook and posted up a CR Zhuni pot and ended up taunting/spamming the boards.

personally, I might not want to acquire that pot for "collection", and may only consider it for usage. but $480 for a pot for usage.. would it hold its value and appreciate?

[BW85]

from the start of Factory 1 in '58, they never used zhuni at all

If factory 1 didn't use zhuni, and other factories weren't around yet, who made this pot?
http://www.sampletea.com/product/1970s- ... eapot-60ml

thats a very good question...

which probably indicates that this pot.. might not be from the said era recently someone actually came onto one of the teapot groups on facebook and posted up a CR Zhuni pot and ended up taunting/spamming the boards.

personally, I might not want to acquire that pot for "collection", and may only consider it for usage. but $480 for a pot for usage.. would it hold its value and appreciate?

Yes I was wondering if it might not be the era claimed. I wasn't interested in purchasing it, these discussions have just piqued my curiosity.

It is a gorgeous pot though! If it was a couple hundred dollars less wouldn't care what era it was from

[BW85]

When would modem zhuni have come onto the scene?

[Tead Off]

from the start of Factory 1 in '58, they never used zhuni at all

If factory 1 didn't use zhuni, and other factories weren't around yet, who made this pot?
http://www.sampletea.com/product/1970s- ... eapot-60ml

This is a perfect example of what I wrote about studying Yixing and knowledge about clays.

I'm also wondering if the use of poems instead of the zhongguo seal began in the 80's where many copies of older factory and mingjia pots were done.