Photographing Tea

[tenuki]

The thing that leaps out at me is that the background 'lines' and the flower 'line' are both in the same direction and tilted. this throws the whole picture out of balance. The problem is further accentuated by the dominate line of the petal to the left that leads the eye right off the picture in the direction it is already falling due to the tilt.

If you could somehow conspire to get the background lines at the right angle (aprox same angle as flower but opposite direction) I think it would balance those problems. The chomatic balance is good btw, almost perfect, maybe the green could be a bit lighter/brighter. I'll try to remember to photoshop it during lunch to show you what I mean.

http://photoinf.com/General/Robert_Berd ... Design.htm

That URL is gold, take it in one hand and your favorite picture from flicker in the other and go through it step by step. Then do the same with a picture of yours you are not statisfied with.

[edit - added photoshoped image of what I'm talking about]

[Geekgirl]

Why? What compositional problem are you trying to solve?

Probably shadow and exposure. You really want the shadow (if there is one) to fall behind or to the side of the image, instead of darkening the front where you need detail. The photoshopping was helpful because it eliminated the distracting element of the board pieces appearing to sprout out of the teapot knob.

Brandon suggested a flash with a snoot, but I would probably use a small lamp or a reflector for a little more "moody" light.

Comp on the iris... yeah, I couldn't get the grass to cooperate by blowing the opposite way of the flower that day. but I would differ with you about where the eye goes, most people are led into the flower. The yellow, and the flower interior is a stronger visual element than the contrary line of petal.

[tenuki]

Why? What compositional problem are you trying to solve?

the distracting element of the board pieces appearing to sprout out of the teapot knob.

Bingo. I'll do my own analysis and photoshop of this one I think since everyone focused on it's obvious problems.

I think the tendency is to try to make every photo a 'standard' perfect photo. I hate that, I'm looking for different and dramatic. The lighting is actually exactly what I wanted, but the composition of the picture is bad. People intuitively know it's broken but without compositional thinking (and without knowing what I was shooting for) they don't know what to fix.

The yellow, and the flower interior is a stronger visual element than the contrary line of petal.

I agree, but think there is actually a larger balancing factor than that. The key idea here to me that you've brought up is that the elements in the photograph push and pull on the eye, a good composition balances those elements, allowing your eyes to rest on the subject but be interested in the context without being pulled all over the place. IMO The large light field on the right of the flower is the main balancing element to that dark diagonal created by the petal I mentioned, not the feature you mention (although it is a factor), what do you think?

[brandon]

I would also start with tenuki's third pic, but before I starting making the bokeh more intense (I would do this from the original, but probably much less than the edit), I would increase the light on the subject only by trying to aim a flash with a snoot at it, while leaving the rest of the room dark and moody. Maybe some cool fall off onto the go board.

Why? What compositional problem are you trying to solve?

The problem that I can hardly make out the detail of the pot. I like the mood, but I would like to be able to maintain that and see a little more of the subject.

This is the kind of effect I am thinking of, generally dark with a dramatic fall off from light to dark.
http://bp0.blogger.com/_Bf48JKOl5HQ/R-l ... Fallon.jpg

Just what comes to mind...

[tenuki]

Why? What compositional problem are you trying to solve?

The problem that I can hardly make out the detail of the pot. I like the mood, but I would like to be able to maintain that and see a little more of the subject.

This is the kind of effect I am thinking of, generally dark with a dramatic fall off from light to dark.
http://bp0.blogger.com/_Bf48JKOl5HQ/R-l ... Fallon.jpg

Ah, so you would like an entirely different composition. hahahah. Fair enough.

To be honest I'm soooo bored with that one trick pony 3 points of light school of photography. Here's a careless and crappy example to prove I'm capable of it even without any studio lights or flash in less than a minute. I'm sorry, sooo boring (and yes, hand held, bad detail, crappy optics artifacts, etc, etc).

btw, comparing portraiture photography to still life is like comparing, well, people to teabowls... The context of the subject is contained in the human face, for an object you generally have to create it.

You really want the shadow (if there is one) to fall behind or to the side of the image, instead of darkening the front where you need detail.

No, I don't, really.

I know that all this comes off sounding arrogant, but try to ignore that unfortunate part of my personality for a moment and try to understand where I'm coming from. I do not care about the detail of the pot, I like hinting at it enough so you can image it. The large light expanse of the go board requires a equal weight of darkness. I'm trying to place the pot in relation to the activity of playing go. Tea is a part of life, it is not fetishizing objects for me. The picture of the chawan above using classic photography techniques makes me puke honestly. I'm striving to capture the subjective experience of using the pot, not to objectivise the pot. My composition fails purhaps, but can you see what it is aimed at? What would it take to make it succeed (beside being a different composition).

Some of you would probably hit me over the head with my teabowl when I told you that for my gong fu garden video I used my crappy point and shoot handheld when I have a perfectly good Canon GL-1, decent boom mics and pro tripod sitting in the closet.

Anyway, I'm almost done, bear with me one more post while I rip apart my own stuff then I'll leave you all in peace.

[Space Samurai]

I do not care about the detail of the pot, I like hinting at it enough so you can image it...I'm striving to capture the subjective experience of using the pot, not to objectivise the pot.

This brings up an interesting point, ties in with the original purpose of this thread.

Many of us when photographing tea are doing it for our blogs or for TeaChat or what have you, we are not (IMO) so much trying to create art, communicate something subjective, but instead trying to illustrate something tangible, ie, the tea or tea pot. This is the difference between journalism and creative writing. The goal is to stick to the facts, show what's really there; if you can create art around it and with it, then you have a good or great photo.

If I were doing a blog about my new teapot, but only hinted at it with the photos, I might pique your interest, creat a mood, but I would not deliver the goods.

Now of course Tenuki, we all know of your disdain for blogs, and I do not suggest that this is your goal, but I think it's something others might be interested in thinking about: what is your goal? What are you trying to communicate? Then compose your photo.

[scruffmcgruff]

Actually... if nobody minds, I'd like to take this opportunity to ask for some constructive criticism on a few of my photos. Don't hold back; I know I'm no expert.







One of the reasons I was considering a dSLR was so I could do some fun depth of field stuff. Also, it would be nice to be able to focus on what I want to focus on, instead of what the camera finds appealing. But yes, anyway, I would appreciate any input you all have. I did some minimal editing in iPhoto, but it was pretty much just exposure and white balance correction, IIRC.

[Salsero]

I'm trying to place the pot in relation to the activity of playing go. Tea is a part of life, it is not fetishizing objects for me.

Yippee, someone is defending the Go Board!! ... but have to admit I love fetishizing the Go Board.

This brings up an interesting point, ties in with the original purpose of this thread.

Many of us when photographing tea are doing it for our blogs or for TeaChat or what have you, we are not (IMO) so much trying to create art, communicate something subjective, but instead trying to illustrate something tangible, ie, the tea or tea pot. This is the difference between journalism and creative writing. The goal is to stick to the facts, show what's really there; if you can create art around it and with it, then you have a good or great photo.

As usual, Space, you make the subtle distinction that keeps me thinking. I suspect, however, that if a few composition ideas are part of how we think visually, photos may work better as journalism ... but I guess you said that.

One of my favorite photographers on the T-internet is MarshalN, actually maybe THE favorite. That fact that he knows the tea better than any ten of us put together shows in his photos. The first year of reading his blog every day (by which I mean looking at the photos), was my education in what tea looks like, feels like, what's to appreciate, where does it belong in life, how does tea interact with the brewing vessel, the cup, the sunlight, the room. My impression is that MarshalN doesn't think too much about the photography, but the pictures -- at least for me -- are the most beautiful documentation of what it is to be a TeaHead, to be on a journey that includes tea. For him, I imagine, the composition (and his composition is compelling) arises from the subject.

[Salsero]

Actually... if nobody minds, I'd like to take this opportunity to ask for some constructive criticism on a few of my photos.

Scruff, your photos are always great. In these particular examples you have used selective DOF very nicely. The auto settings are pretty smart, although they can be fooled. Are you sure you can't over ride the auto focus somehow to pick your own focal point? Like focus on a central spot in the viewfinder and then recompose?

By the way, for the tiny, low quality photos that we post on the internet, the enormous files produced by current digital cameras are way overkill.

Maybe Tenuki will find something helpful to say about your compostions, but I just think they are nice. I have always loved your blog photos. The ones in your dorm room were amazing for not letting us know what a deprived environment the tea was happening in!

[Photiou]

Long exposure time is not good for photographing pouring tea it seems. Does not look that delicious

[tenuki]

what is your goal? What are you trying to communicate? Then compose your photo.

Exactly. And the compositional tools I'm talking about help you create that instead of just happening upon it randomly. I find art enticing.

Instead of posting my criticism of my photos in another huge post I went back and edited my original posting - so go back and read it if you are interested on my own thoughts bout those pics and some interesting photoshop experiments to test my theories.

[scruffmcgruff]

Thank you, Salsero! Hmm... I think you mentioned the autofocus-then-recompose thing earlier, but I must've forgotten. That might just work... thanks for the tip.

[tenuki]

^
The warmth of the rock is beautiful, if you could have pulled that bowl back to be totally surrounded by that color, a little oasis of tea surrounded by warm earth I think the leaves would have popped and become the focal point of the photo. I'm guessing you are trying to show the leaves? As it is now they dribble off into the background, kinda miss being the focal point. Showing more of the white rim could have done this too, they need framing somehow, but pulling it down would hit the thirds better. The step down fence line leading sublty into the distance is downright awesome but it makes the lack of a strong focal point worse. This is my favorite of the three and I sooooo wish you had pulled that bowl back and recomposed.

The last two are very well executed, beautiful pictures of flowers. <yawn>

I guess to say that nicely - the first one hints at a moment in time, warm earth giving up mysteries and secret paths surrounded in beauty. The second two do not.

I autofocus and recompose all the time with my point and shoot POC. And before that it was manual everything with my OM-1.

[tenuki]

Long exposure time is not good for photographing pouring tea it seems. Does not look that delicious

Actually I rather like it. Usually you use a darker background and put a spotlight across the fluid to get it sparklin. Keep experimenting!

I used to take a self portrait every year and one year I set it up at night and did a very very long exposure, during which point I moved several times to 'paint' the picture with multiple ghost images of me with various things 'in focus' and others just a blur or nonexistant. good fun.

[trent]

I generally think that my tea photos pale in comparison to my landscape shots, but what do you think of these? (they're from this blog entry: http://trentea.wordpress.com/2008/06/10 ... ed-sencha/)

A general theme in my work (much like yosigo!!! and f l u x and Mike Stacey ) is minimalism. I try to think like a painter while I craft my composition: why would a painter waste his time adding an element that didn't do anything for the composition? I consider the composition complete only when it is pared down to including only the necessary elements.


There are 5 elements of composition:
1. Line
2. Shape
3. Texture
4. Value
5. Color
This shot is definitely about the color, and the lines radiating from the kyusu.


Now that I look at it, I think I should have made sure that the kyusu was completely framed by the white railing. I was going for a dynamic composition w/ the diagonal lines and the relationship between kyusu/shadow. I also like the peek of the sasami filter


need to fix barrel distortion, but I liked the quadruple division[/list]