I thought that red tea had the least caffeine of all teas (generally speaking.)disillusioned wrote:...For example the white teas we are told posses about 1% the caffeine of a cup of coffee, green teas 5-10%, oolongs 10-15% and black teas about 20%.
Dec 11th, '08, 21:44
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xuancheng
Dec 12th, '08, 00:09
Posts: 342
Joined: Jul 30th, '08, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, MA
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xuancheng
I drink Chinese tea, so black tea is post-fermented tea. roobios is not tea at all because it is not from the camellia sinensis. Of course terminology doesn't matter as long as everyone understands each other. I have seen caffeine information here in China which is diametrically opposite to Teavana's caffeine list. Red tea (or black tea) has the least, with green and white teas topping the list with the most.disillusioned wrote:it depends on which red tea you are talking about rooibus from africa has no caffeine but black tea is often referred to as red tea and it has caffeine
I think that telling customers about the health benefits of tea may actually be illegal in the US if the study or information has not been approved by the FDA. I have read that companies are not supposed to publish information on the health benefits of tea in concert with marketing.
Dec 12th, '08, 01:05
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I would be really curious if you could post what they say in China about the caffeine in tea. I don't know if you have numbers like mg/cup but i would be very interested if you didxuancheng wrote:
I drink Chinese tea, so black tea is post-fermented tea. roobios is not tea at all because it is not from the camellia sinensis. Of course terminology doesn't matter as long as everyone understands each other. I have seen caffeine information here in China which is diametrically opposite to Teavana's caffeine list. Red tea (or black tea) has the least, with green and white teas topping the list with the most.
Hey
Hey,
I'm new here, came specifically to see what the communtiy had to say on Teavana.
To give you a general rule of thumb: What they say in those books is not 100% true. It's not outright false, but everything is severely slanted in their favor. The cast iron pots are labeled "the best" because they are the priciest. They consider white tea "the best" because its generally the most expensive, with none of them being under $10 per 2 oz. I'm actually compiling a paper about my experiences at Teavana. It introduced me to tea, to a "wonderful company", and slowly changed me opinion. I'm still fascinated with the world of tea, but am so unsatisfied with my experience at the company I feel compelled to write something.
If you have any specific questions, ask me, I can give you the Teavana answer and the real answer.
I'm new here, came specifically to see what the communtiy had to say on Teavana.
To give you a general rule of thumb: What they say in those books is not 100% true. It's not outright false, but everything is severely slanted in their favor. The cast iron pots are labeled "the best" because they are the priciest. They consider white tea "the best" because its generally the most expensive, with none of them being under $10 per 2 oz. I'm actually compiling a paper about my experiences at Teavana. It introduced me to tea, to a "wonderful company", and slowly changed me opinion. I'm still fascinated with the world of tea, but am so unsatisfied with my experience at the company I feel compelled to write something.
If you have any specific questions, ask me, I can give you the Teavana answer and the real answer.
Dec 13th, '08, 02:41
Posts: 20891
Joined: Apr 22nd, '06, 20:52
Scrolling: scrolling
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Welcome earthrprince - wow another disgruntled employee.
Well we are the ones who can understand.
Vent away.
Well we are the ones who can understand.
Vent away.
- Victoria -
http://victoriasown.blogspot.com/
http://victoriasown.blogspot.com/
Dec 13th, '08, 07:46
Posts: 53
Joined: Oct 17th, '08, 23:58
Location: Not in the blue teapot
Note to self: never look further into Teavana aside from maybe a look in on a shop if one every pops up around here. That note aside, I've been bumping into those odd little generalizations here and about and my inner scientist seeks to redirect some of the generalities into details that might need to be known. As such, I shall briefly entail the following topic: cast iron for health/use. Caffeine is subjective to the point at which comparing weak coffee to strong tea would mean very little to a solution. Not to mention the contents of specific teas and the derivations of Camellia sinensis which brings about such a headache that we'd have to go into talks on a whole 'nother page or three just about how subjective that is!
Moving right along, cast iron is just as it sounds- iron wrought from the bare amount of impurities in an effort to preserve the most material properties of the metal. Heating is a swift feat as iron's outer shell electrons and vibration structures tend to fluctuate rapidly enough to transfer heat with an average of 50% from the source (from a kinetic energy standpoint; specific value varies as I lack a CRC at the moment). This of course tapers off as the material's volume increases but we're not talking about more than half an inch of iron here so that point is mute. The remaining heat stays well within the iron until it radiates off due to natural factors yet tend to stay within the material, re-leeching the heat and slowly radiating off instead of rapidly diminishing like steel is known to. In the tea world this means you can steep tea at a more constant temperature, longer, than ceramics or glass, hence why some people would claim cast iron is a superior preparation tool. Of course the secondary benefits or, in some cases, detriments to cast iron is the leech factor for iron into the items being heated, sometimes heightening or diminishing a tea's taste depending upon the strength of the blend and steep. Fresh, non-seasoned pans, pots, and other cookware generally have some form of keeping agent (such as wax, anti-rust chemicals, machine oils, etc) to help them through storage, shipment, and like industry factors, thus being inadequate until properly seasoned with religious uses of oils and fats. The many manners of seasoning the vessel adds another layer of tea brewing that most people don't consider: the seasoning of their pot. If you were to cook with a cast iron pan it would absorb the bacon grease, beef seasoning, pepper oils, and like deep flavors for future use. If you were to spread a light olive oil into a fresh kettle, add water to boil, repeat with an essential oil of a flowered variety or nut oils it would add its subtlety to whatever was brewed within. This adds a whole new element to tea preparation that many would spend years refining and still never master. Honestly after the mild amount of thought-form I've done on this atop my background with good ol' souther cooking (southwestern cooking, actually) and research, I'm considering a cast iron kettle or teapot just to experiment with the nature of seasoning it just right.
Anyways, I'm certain a few dozen or more of you've known this little aside and will likely poke at my little failings as I know I'm omitting pieces in my delirium from lack of sleep. Realistically, the maker of the cast iron determines only a few factors: its reheat/use lifespan and its initial purities/chemical makeup. From what little I've seen and read of the Japanese-made cast iron I note that they tend to go for higher carbon content as a strengthening agent against allowing the iron to settle properly into a porous grate that would take in oils and flavors more readily but shorten the lifespan. This can be seen as a cast iron pan/pot that will last a lifetime and likely to be passed down to child as well but at the expense of some flavors or ease of seasoning that a slightly less durable pan would accept more willingly. Comparing this to the Chinese mass-produced iron goods I see the metal impurities stack up to the point at which the exact balance either severely hurts or helps the pan, something that varies vastly from maker to maker and likely making you purchase and re-season pans/pots over the course of a few years. Luckily I've an old British-made pan that's been in the family for a few generations and the pair will be handed down to me more than likely as my sibling prefers those modern non-stick wonders rather than a healthy dose of pig fat joining her morning meals. Hmm... I wonder how many manufacturers charcoal polish their pans like the old British companies used to. Worked rather well in my opinion but that's not very objective, is it?
Now to get some sleep and edit this for content and additions later today or tomorrow. *THUD*
Moving right along, cast iron is just as it sounds- iron wrought from the bare amount of impurities in an effort to preserve the most material properties of the metal. Heating is a swift feat as iron's outer shell electrons and vibration structures tend to fluctuate rapidly enough to transfer heat with an average of 50% from the source (from a kinetic energy standpoint; specific value varies as I lack a CRC at the moment). This of course tapers off as the material's volume increases but we're not talking about more than half an inch of iron here so that point is mute. The remaining heat stays well within the iron until it radiates off due to natural factors yet tend to stay within the material, re-leeching the heat and slowly radiating off instead of rapidly diminishing like steel is known to. In the tea world this means you can steep tea at a more constant temperature, longer, than ceramics or glass, hence why some people would claim cast iron is a superior preparation tool. Of course the secondary benefits or, in some cases, detriments to cast iron is the leech factor for iron into the items being heated, sometimes heightening or diminishing a tea's taste depending upon the strength of the blend and steep. Fresh, non-seasoned pans, pots, and other cookware generally have some form of keeping agent (such as wax, anti-rust chemicals, machine oils, etc) to help them through storage, shipment, and like industry factors, thus being inadequate until properly seasoned with religious uses of oils and fats. The many manners of seasoning the vessel adds another layer of tea brewing that most people don't consider: the seasoning of their pot. If you were to cook with a cast iron pan it would absorb the bacon grease, beef seasoning, pepper oils, and like deep flavors for future use. If you were to spread a light olive oil into a fresh kettle, add water to boil, repeat with an essential oil of a flowered variety or nut oils it would add its subtlety to whatever was brewed within. This adds a whole new element to tea preparation that many would spend years refining and still never master. Honestly after the mild amount of thought-form I've done on this atop my background with good ol' souther cooking (southwestern cooking, actually) and research, I'm considering a cast iron kettle or teapot just to experiment with the nature of seasoning it just right.
Anyways, I'm certain a few dozen or more of you've known this little aside and will likely poke at my little failings as I know I'm omitting pieces in my delirium from lack of sleep. Realistically, the maker of the cast iron determines only a few factors: its reheat/use lifespan and its initial purities/chemical makeup. From what little I've seen and read of the Japanese-made cast iron I note that they tend to go for higher carbon content as a strengthening agent against allowing the iron to settle properly into a porous grate that would take in oils and flavors more readily but shorten the lifespan. This can be seen as a cast iron pan/pot that will last a lifetime and likely to be passed down to child as well but at the expense of some flavors or ease of seasoning that a slightly less durable pan would accept more willingly. Comparing this to the Chinese mass-produced iron goods I see the metal impurities stack up to the point at which the exact balance either severely hurts or helps the pan, something that varies vastly from maker to maker and likely making you purchase and re-season pans/pots over the course of a few years. Luckily I've an old British-made pan that's been in the family for a few generations and the pair will be handed down to me more than likely as my sibling prefers those modern non-stick wonders rather than a healthy dose of pig fat joining her morning meals. Hmm... I wonder how many manufacturers charcoal polish their pans like the old British companies used to. Worked rather well in my opinion but that's not very objective, is it?
Now to get some sleep and edit this for content and additions later today or tomorrow. *THUD*
Which is exactly what brought me hereVictoria wrote:Welcome earthrprince - wow another disgruntled employee.
Well we are the ones who can understand.
Vent away.
I read a lot of comments about the company in these forums, which weren't all positive, and I'm curious as to what others think about it. I'm trying to figure out the best way to explain my experiences :]Disgruntled Teavana employees unite!!earthprince wrote:Which is exactly what brought me hereVictoria wrote:Welcome earthrprince - wow another disgruntled employee.
Well we are the ones who can understand.
Vent away.
my idea of fun at teavana is to come really hopped up on espresso and walk around giggling to myself about things like "strawberry slender pu-erh" and "apricot caramel torte green tea" until someone tries to sell me a tetsubin to whom i respond "if you can't tell me the harvest date on that monkey picked oolong, i'll walk out right now."
if teavana is what consumer capitalism will make out of tea, i consider myself a hard-line communist.
if teavana is what consumer capitalism will make out of tea, i consider myself a hard-line communist.
It never made scene to me in the other order. All the caffeine comes from the plant, so all tea should have the same caffeine unless he processing takes it out, processing couldn't possibly add caffeine. Or maybe processing helps keep the caffeine in.xuancheng wrote:disillusioned wrote:i I have seen caffeine information here in China which is diametrically opposite to Teavana's caffeine list. Red tea (or black tea) has the least, with green and white teas topping the list with the most.
From what I have read though harvesting has a lot to do with the caffeine levels in the original leaf though. Light / time of day / fertilization / etc. And different teas have different growing / harvesting schedules so that could account for the difference in the end product.edkrueger wrote: It never made scene to me in the other order. All the caffeine comes from the plant, so all tea should have the same caffeine unless he processing takes it out, processing couldn't possibly add caffeine. Or maybe processing helps keep the caffeine in.
Dec 17th, '08, 15:28
Posts: 53
Joined: Oct 17th, '08, 23:58
Location: Not in the blue teapot
Even after taking those factors into account you have one very large factor to caffeine content: brewing. Caffeine's water solubility is 180mg per mL at 80 degrees Celsius (about 180 Fahrenheit) and 670mg per mL at 100 degrees Celsius. Taking into account full steeping time and volumes averages, it would be assumed that not all the caffeine in every leaf in the shorter steeping times of whites and greens makes it way into the cup nor does the maximum rate of dissolving occur as boiling your greens and whites often scorches them as we all know.Pentox wrote:From what I have read though harvesting has a lot to do with the caffeine levels in the original leaf though. Light / time of day / fertilization / etc. And different teas have different growing / harvesting schedules so that could account for the difference in the end product.edkrueger wrote: It never made scene to me in the other order. All the caffeine comes from the plant, so all tea should have the same caffeine unless he processing takes it out, processing couldn't possibly add caffeine. Or maybe processing helps keep the caffeine in.
As much as it is a general guideline, Wikipedia is likely more general on this topic of caffeine than Teavana. As the Caffeine article and Potential Effects of Tea on Health might be a touch off in specific teas and likely disregard individual varieties, there's a middle ground that is to be noticed: even the maximum ranges of teas (in the 50-60 mg ranges) are lower than that of coffee (in the 80-135 ranges). Then again, it's just caffeine and drinking a liter of tea is just as much as having three cups of coffee.
In the end, the caffeine issue is an average and general note rather than a specific amount as there are far too many variables unless you grind down and get those chemistry kits out yourself to test your favorite leaves. Until every tea is tested for caffeine content then there will not be a specific number and not to even mention caffeine content varies from coffee bean to coffee bean as my coffee fiend of a sibling would have me know. Such a very imprecise world this is.